User talk:Tripping Nambiar

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How can you be a Dravidian and an Indo-Aryan? The two are not interchangeable.

I was just browsing your User Page - and saw that you're from Kerala, and are a Dravidian, yet claim to be an Indo-Aryan.

Indo-Aryans and Dravidians do not have the same origins - so how can you claim to be both? The Dravidians are a Melanid/ Veddoid/ Australoid type and occupy Central and Southern India whereas the Indo-Aryans occupy Northern India and are Caucasaoid/ Europid type.

As you're from Kerala, you must definitely be a Dravidian. I think you need to rectify that.

Well first of all I highly doubt your "Indo-Aryans occupy Northern India and are Caucasaoid/ Europid type" or that "The Dravidians are a Melanid/ Veddoid/ Australoid type and occupy Central and Southern India". You need to rectify this false assumption, I have seen many Australoid/Veddoid looking Indo-Aryans, who actually look more stereotypically Dravidian then me, as I have seen many Indo-Aryan(Caucasoid/Europid) looking Dravidian peoples, and the Kodava Dravidians are actually Indo-Scythians. "As you're from Kerala, you must definitely be a Dravidian" is also a false assumption as Brahmins of Kerala are of primarily Aryan descent (at least paternally) and Nasrani are of partial Arab descent. Genetically and phenotypically an upper caste Dravidian can be closer to one Indo-Aryan ie a Gujarati than a Bengali,Bihari or a Sinhala is to the same Gujarati, and have more West Eurasian MtDNA than a person belonging to any of these groups. My reason for adding both is my view and argument that both terms do not connote different races, as Eurocentrics, divide and conquer tactics, Afrocentrics and leftist politically motivated historians would have people believe, but rather is a blanket term for various peoples and communities of different genetic and racial history based on the languages they are natively known to speak. In that case I most definitely am a Dravidian but this does not map out my genetic history and community origins most definitely. I do have partial Namboothiri Brahmin blood in my veins just to add, however this is not relevant to the argument. Most Indians are a definite mix of many races and the only North Indians who definately deserve the "Caucasoid/Europid" (though a humorous description for most North Indians) tag are some communities in the North (Gujjars, Jats etc) and most of the Punjabi peoples. Thank you for asking this awaited question and I hope more Indo-Aryans or Dravidians with assumptions which I can challenge do too. B Nambiar 10:02, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

http://books.google.com is very useful some times if you want info on something useful for supporting your arguement.

I hope this will clear ur doubts http://books.google.com/books?q=Nair+Sudra http://books.google.com/books?q=Malayali+Sudra

Its a know fact that ezhavas were never part of chathur varna. So case of alling with any layers of that. See wiki is not the page add content with no reference. You can see from this Nair woman goes everywhere thus, uncovered and unashamed. from the book found here [1]. So thing we cant add and some details we can add. in 1931 servay, there was no reference of Nair and vellala, but called Malayali Sudra and Naanchinadu sudra. The page scanned and added in SN director from Koumudi publications page number 86. The english books say same thing with ref to Nair http://books.google.com/books?id=KCm1s6NYjpkC&pg=PA219&dq=Nair+woman&ei=OT8XR6umPJXC7AL-2IjLBQ&sig=GumwrbX-BESLz7ouHTHT8Bda8Q8

61.95.201.56 11:05, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a rather pointless comment. It just brings up text which contains the words Nairs and Sudras, Im not sure what to make of this. Well aware of the fact that Nairs are Sudras in the eyes of Namboothiris if thats what you commented to suggest, however unofficially in most accounts they were Kshatriyas in profession. B Nambiar 11:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info. I think kshtriya samaj will sue u if the seen this. See 1931 Census information if you can get it from somewhere 61.95.201.56 11:20, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I fail to see on what grounds Kshatriya Samaj will sue me. I have acknowledged the census information that at 1931, and I have concluded that perhaps in the city of Travancore in 1931 "number rich business people among the community was better compared to Malayali Sudra(Nairs) and Nanchinattu Sudras(Vellalas)". You must be brimming with Ezhava pride, for surely now if never before Ezhavas are greater than Nairs. Congratulations old chap. I shall campaign for similar numerous cited comparisons that compare Nairs favorably to Ezhavas to be included in the Nair article. B Nambiar 12:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ezhava

Thanks for your input to Ezhava. As you can see, I have been doing a lot to clean up the article. It was poorly written, full of POV and peacock terms, and also had a lot of extraneous information that had nothing to do with the caste. Can you help me out with rewriting the article too? I'm facing an uncooperative lot who seem disinclined to even discuss the issue. --vi5in^[talk] 16:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Yeah, it's probably going to get reverted. But I've been doing my best to cleanup the article. Oh well! If we end up facing too much opposition, we can take it to WP:MEDCOM. I faced the same issue with the Nair article where I faced a lot of opposition from overzealous Nairs (the irony is that I am a Nair myself) when I was trying to improve the article and make it more objective. Speaking of which, I have initiated a discussion on the talk page to remove the quotes section as I feel it really doesn't add any information to the article. It only seems to glorify the caste. Could you add your input to that please? Thanks! --vi5in^[talk] 17:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism in Ezhava

Please stop. If you continue to Vandalize out (or delete portions of) page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia, as you did to Ezhava, you will be blocked from editing.Tulu war 11:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

3RR

Please cease with your reverts to Ezhava Article. You have now broken the Three Revert Rule and have been reported. Tulu war 12:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:3RR on Ezhava

You have been blocked from editing for a short time in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule . Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.

-- Merope 13:19, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Tripping Nambiar (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

User Tulu war is hypocritical as my edits are proven to be of a factual basis, and also to remove a POV comparison as the Ezhava article is full of peacock terms and POV which users such as Tulu war vehemently maintain. My attempts at negotiation to make Tulu war understand how I support my edits have been unanswered and the 3RR rule was broken before me by user Tulu war who reverted my factual edits and removal of a POV comparison which I reverted back in the interests of objective information. Ezhava users seem to have a group inferiority complex and only appreciate selective edits that cherry pick or further add peacock terms to the poor article to show the community in subjective light. I feel like I'm trying to edit an advertisement to make it accurate and the company the who makes the ad i.e users such as Tulu war are collaborating to keep the article perpetually misinforming. B Nambiar 13:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Decline reason:

There are many good ways to deal with an editing conflict. Edit-warring is ineffective, and it's against the rules- even when you are sure that you are right- so when your block expires, you'll need to use one of the other suggestions at Dispute resolutions, so you can avoid a similar problem. — FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

)

Why don't you block user Tulu War as well, as instead of choosing mediation which I would have preferred, the user chose to report me even though the user ignored the comments left on the users page by me and after all the user broke the 3RR rule before me by reverting my ads more than three times and continued to edit-war with me which is the same violation. B Nambiar 14:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Civility comment

First, I just want to make this absolutely clear: making accusations about the intentions of other editors is not helpful to your arguments. Comments like "Ezhava users have ... perhaps due to insecurity" are going to make me just ignore you. Comment on the text in the article, not on other users (their intentions, their backgrounds, the color of the user pages, I don't care - don't talk about it). Now, comment at Talk:Ezhava about what specifically you want changed. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:34, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said ignored but you sort of see what I mean at Talk:Ezhava [2]. Basically, Ezhavas can be considered like dalits because both have no position within the Hindu caste system. The note about them historically having no position is already there (and doesn't seem too controversial) but comparing them to dalits is. So, to be fair, I'd say keep what's in the intro and add a section detailing how Ezhavas fit into the Hindu caste system (and take the sentences about their classification as backwards castes) so that it's more organized. Thus, it's more like "don't have a position in the caste system => classified as backwards caste in modern society => similar to dalits." Again, other ideas, respond at the article talk page. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:34, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Nair comments

Its seen that the social status of a community is added to first line of the introduction of any community article. It has been also noted that you yourself have been added same thing to some other article. please refrain from removing rerenced contentVvmundakkal —Preceding comment was added at 09:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

3RR

Please stop reverts to Nair Article. You have violated the Three Revert Rule It will reported asap. Vvmundakkal

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot 08:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vengayil

Vengayil is a nayanar family. The statement and reference is provided below. Supporting Statement- “The Chirakkal Raja's family owned about 30000 acres; the Vengayil Nayanar family owned over 200000 acres, including forest lands; the Kurumathoor….” Reference- Organized Struggles of Malabar Peasantry, 1934-1940 Prakash Karat Social Scientist, Vol. 5, No. 8 (Mar., 1977), pp. 3-17 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 13:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vengayil and Nayanar-Seperate Nayanar page

The relationship between nayanar and nambiar are the same as nambiar and kurup all of them being sub-clans among nayars of malabar that can marry one another.All documentary evidences like the one i have provided before claim vengayil to be nayanar.Moreover there also seem to be a SEPERATE NAYANAR PAGE and so Vengayil K Nayanar , the vengayil family and the vinod nayanar belong in the Nayanar page. Sorry to say this but inspite of me providing documentary evidence pertaining to vengayil-nayanar (Social Scientist, Vol. 5, No. 8 Mar., 1977 pp. 3-17 connection)you have neither produced any document that support vinod nayanar and kalliat connection nor nayanar-nambiar connection, . I am also from malabar and a nambiar myself and so i cannot buy your argument as i know personally that Nayanar and Nambiar are tow different sub-clans. Also considering that there is a seperate Nayanar page -Kindly add these eminent personalities in the nayanar page-that is more appropriate thing to do otherwise we will be blamed of hijacking personalities from other sub-clans.LET US RESOLVE THIS ISSUE BASED ON DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE. please understand and Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 15:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi!

Hello there. I came to your user page upon following your comment on the Indian National Congress page. From your userboxes, it seems that you are an enlightened, modern world citizen who appreciates the values of libertarianism and is against racism. Broadly, you seem to be supportive of equality. Given that, I find it intriguing that you also support Hindutva, which is inherently fascist in practice. Don't get me wrong, I'm just interested in knowing your thoughts. As for me, I used to be a strong BJP supporter until Gujarat happened, and made me feel terribly let down. Amit@Talk 08:00, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your detailed reply. I appreciate your nuanced approach and your candidness about the contradictions in your views. I am not going to make any attempt to "convert" you here, but just a couple of observations:

1)I am no fan of the Marxists, I absolutely loath them and I sympathise with the victims of their terror squads. However two wrongs don't make a right so I don't know how this justifies the armed gangs promoted in the name of Hindutva to "defend" the hindus; one would think in a modern nation it's the state's responsibility, and indeed sole privilege, of enforcing the law.

2)I agree with you in that Hindutva promoters are not "fascists" in the strict sense of the word, but hearing VHP leaders on TV has made me wonder if there's any difference in tactics - both rely upon the dehumanization of the "other" (Jews/Muslims) to justify inhumane crimes against them. I repeat - I saw these on TV, so their's no question of doubting the reliability of those news. Again - about BJP's role in Gujarat violence - There are some publications which I've come to respect and trust over a period of many years - primarily the Indian Express and the Outlook magazine - and they have clearly exposed BJP's role in orchestrating the violence; I can't see why they would want to mislead the public "on purpose".

As I said before, I used to love the BJP before, but with time I came to realize that everything they stand for is opposite to basic human values that I hold dear. As I said before, I'm not trying to inflence your views, but I sincerely hope that as your political views mature, and you try to resolve the contradictions in them, you approach things with an open mind and in the process are able to see some uncomfortable truths, like I did.

P.S:I'm well read in Hindu scriptures and the teachings of Hindu Saints like Swami Vivekananda, and I must say the Hindutva practices share nothing in common with them. Indeed, the kind of Hinduism the Hindutva people purport to "save" won't be worth saving at all. Amit@Talk 15:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Menon

As wiki policy you cant add content without reference. Thats the reason why List of Nairs and List of Notable Ezhavas deleted 14:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)