Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-04-29 Wales
| Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
|---|---|
 | |
| Article | Wales |
| Status | new |
| Request date | Unknown |
| Requesting party | Unknown |
| Parties involved | |
[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab new cases|Wales]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance|Wales]]
Request details
We would like you to settle an ongoing dispute which is becoming increasingly less constructive, with the refusal of a couple of members to listen to several official references.
- More info in the "What's going on section".
Who are the involved parties?
What's going on?
Currently, the Wales article lists Wales as a country. There are however, some sources from the United Nations, the European Union, the Internation Standard Organisation, and the BBC which show clearly that Wales is not counted as a "country". On the other hand, there are also many quotes that do list it as a country. Due to the fact that there were mixed view sources on whether Wales was a country or not, User:Wikipéire and myself decided that it would be a good idea to rewrite a section of the article to include both points of view, with reference from both sources. User:Snowded has also agreed to the compromise proposal after long discussion.
However, User:Matt Lewis and User:Jack forbes have shown increasing stubbornness, telling us they are going to disguard these references; be it without good reason, and continuing in doing so to push the POV that they view any opposition to Wales being a country as unuseable in some way or another.
Then, User:Matt Lewis decided to modify my comments, changing the meaning of what I wrote, and in doing so, trying to make it appear as though my own arguement was not arguing for the case ([1]), which I warned him about afterwards on his talk page with a level 2 warning (since I was assuming some sort of good faith).
The debate partially spilled over to the Talk:Constituent country page, in which User:Snowded in the end decided that asking personal questions, such as my ethnicity [2] would help. In reply to this, I then told him I did not think this was a relevant question, but s/he continued to be quite persistent, and in the end, managed to reduce our dialogue into a meaningless conversation.
User:Matt Lewis has now taken to making personal attacks, simply insulting User:Wikipéire and myself by calling us "trolls" over and over again (on several pages, several times), since he does not agree with our viewpoint, and now telling us that he will never compromise due to the pride in his country or whatever: [3]. The user is continuing to be uncivil towards me, calling me a troll very frequently, arguing back at me, and keeping an uncivil tone on the article discussion, my talk page, and his. I have linked him to the WP:CIV page several times, but it does not seem to be helping; and the only answer I get is "troll".
User:Wikipéire and myself hope to try and sort this out, and get them to stop asserting a POV and preference simply due to their country, and instead listen to all the sources, so we can achieve a neutral point of view.
Here is a list of sources for Wales being not a country, or implies it by its exclusion in a list of every country:
- The United Nations' official database list of all countries, excludes Wales as being a country
- The ISO's official database of all countries, excludes Wales as being a country
- [www.guavastudios.com/country-list.htm]
- BBC site "Nevertheless we have in recent years taken to describing Wales as a country" "But Wales is not a country or a nation in another sense of the words because it doesn't have its own government"
- BBC site "An insurance company has told a customer of 10 years in south east Wales that it could not renew his policy because Wales was not a country"
- "England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are not countries but the United Kingdom is"
- BBC site "Wales is a Principality" (not a country)
- BBC history page "The emergence of the principality of Wales - Wales at the beginning of the 13th century" (describes Wales as a principality, not country)
- Babylon.com "principality of the United Kingdom located in the western part of the island of Great Britain"
- "The society of the Holy Cross - Province of Wales"
- "England... Kingdom". "Scotland... Kingdom". "Wales... Principality". "Northern Ireland... Province"
I am not going to list the sources for Wales being a country, as we already know that there are several supporting it; that is not what is disputed. What is disputed is that it is also considered by some as not a country, and these sources show evidence for that. Some of these sources are of more worth than others, with some being more reliable, but the majority of the ones discussed have been listed here.
I have suggested mediation a couple of times now, but hoped that we would be able to sort the issue out ourselves. However, it seems apprently not so, and we would appreciate it if you could come and intervene in the situation, ensuring that a neutral point of view, reflecting all the sources, is displayed.
What would you like to change about that?
We would be grateful if you could intervene in the discussion, as mentioned above, and help to ensure a neutral point of view is kept, which includes all the reliable sources, and not a "selection".
Thank you for your time. Gozitancrabz (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)