Talk:Abiogenesis

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Much of the content of Abiogenesis was merged from Origin of life. For discussion of that page preceding that merge, see here.

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Polyphopshate model edit

I would like to discuss the removal of an edit of mine to the Polyphosphate section of this website. First, who removed it and why? It is consistent with a number of articles in the scientific literature as well as several popular books that discuss the origin of life. Also, the model is consistent with some views expressed by Arthur Kornberg in his papers on Polyphospahte (and inconsistent with none of his views). The current Polyphospahte discussion is minimal and would greatly benefit from a second paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polyp2 (talk • contribs) 00:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Click here to learn who and why. Art LaPella (talk) 01:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was a lot to read on your personal site, so I may have missed your point. Is it that you do not want me to link to the book's website? Would you prefer a standard reference with no link (ie-title, year of publication, etc.)? Others seem to link to the primary source.

Is that the problem, or is it something else? And what is your area of expertise that relates to polyphosphate and abiogenesis?

Polyp2 (talk) 03:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scientific Consesus

The article where is says:"Scientific consensus is that abiogenesis occurred sometime between 4.4 billion years ago, when water vapor first liquefied,[2] and 2.7 billion years ago, when the ratio of stable isotopes of carbon (12C and 13C), iron (56Fe, 57Fe, and 58Fe) and sulfur (32S, 33S, 34S, and 36S) points to a biogenic origin of minerals and sediments[3][4] and molecular biomarkers indicate photosynthesis.[5][6] This topic also includes panspermia and other exogenic theories regarding possible extra-planetary or extraterrestrial origins of life, thought to have possibly occurred sometime over the last 13.7 billion years in the evolution of the Universe since the Big Bang.[7]"

It says there is a "scientific consensus" that the "event" occured between 4.4 and 2.7 billion years ago and also possibly 13.7 billion years ago. What is the "consensus"?Tstrobaugh (talk) 16:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We're pretty much bound by what the sources say, barring the sources being mis-represented or a lack of new sources, the page should stick to what it says now. WLU (talk) 19:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even if it is contradictory?Tstrobaugh (talk) 00:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How is that contradictory? Life appeared on earth between 4.4 and 2.7 billion years ago. Maybe it came from somewhere else first, but it was first on earth somewhere in that range. This article includes information about theories of abiogenesis on earth + theories that life on earth came from somewhere else (wasn't genesis of life from no life (abiogenesis), but life on earth from life somewhere else). - Enuja (talk) 01:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So you believe that there is a "Scientific Consensus" that life began on earth between "4.4 and 2.7 billion years ago" and also may have come from somewhere else possibly 13.7 billion years ago? You ask where is the contradiction, I ask again, where is the consensus?Tstrobaugh (talk) 15:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes.

Scientific consensus: There is life on earth now. There absolutely was life on earth 2.7 billion years ago. There could have been life on earth as early as 4.4 billion years ago. We do not know how/where it came from.

Does that make more sense? One can have a consensus "We have no data. We do not know." In this case, there is some data that everyone agrees on, and there are hypotheses that people do not agree on. Questions we do not have answers for include: Did life come from elsewhere? Did it come from non-life on earth? When (in the 1.7 billion year possible period) did life start existing on earth?

The current text does not say that life could have appeared on earth 13.7 billion years ago, but that it could have occurred elsewhere sometime in the last 13.7 billion years and came from elsewhere to earth between 4.4 and 2.7 billion years ago. The current text also doesn't say that the scientific consensus is that life arose elsewhere a long time ago; the consensus bit refers only to the first sentence. If either of these things are what is bothering you, then, by all means, clarify the text of the article.

I honestly don't understand what is confusing about the section you've quoted, and I honestly haven't even read the whole article carefully; it's a mess. But the part you are quoting makes sense to me. - Enuja (talk) 18:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]