Talk:Smegma

Is it really necessary to call in knob cheese? The caption for the pic is obviously a joke too. AllTheBrightness (talk) 06:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Some Questions

Well, I read some of the talk page, and hope my asking of the following questions doesn't enrage anyone or get interpreted as a subtle POV attack.

First, is the note about vernix actually necessary? I am not asking sarcastically, I just have never heard of anyone calling the babywax smegma.

Next, the lead paragraph seems to be saying some contradictory things:

"Smegma, a transliteration of the Greek word σμήγμα for soap, is a combination of exfoliated (shed) epithelial cells, transudated skin oils, moisture, and bacteria that can accumulate under the foreskin of males and within the female vulva area, with a characteristic strong odor and taste. Smegma is common to all mammals, male and female. Mycobacterium smegmatis is the characteristic bacterium involved in smegma production, and is generally thought to form smegma from epidermal secretions."

Smegma is a combination of cells, oils, moisture and any related bacteria. And it is (thought to be) formed by a bacterium? So, the bacterium is thought to be the cause of smegma, and without it, all that stuff would just dribble away? The article on the bacterium does not mention this. I know the human body has a lot of hitchhikers who help us out in a lot of ways, so I am in no way bothered by the idea, but I think it should be more clearly stated, if known, and the bacterium article should probably also mention it.

Further: the definition includes "bacteria that can accumulate under the foreskin" -- or is that meant to be the combination that accumulates under the foreskin? And it also accumulates under the clitoral prepuce, which is not generally called a foreskin, right?

Either way, the initial definition seems to include bacteria in the collection of stuff that is smegma. Bactria beyond Mycobacterium smegmatis, one might assume.

Other secretions, sweat for example, tend to contain bacteria, but generally the bacteria isn't part of the definition for sweat itself. It does mention that odor is caused by bacteria breaking down stuff in the sweat. Smegma seems like a similar secretion in this respect, so I wonder: Does the medical definition of smegma actually include the bacteria as part of what it is? Either way, this could be clarified.

Is the "characteristic odor" from the smegma itself or from the bacterial breakdown of accumulated smegma? Are there odorants included, or does Mycobacterium smegmatis have an odor itself? Surely someone knows.

"if allowed to accumulate and decay in the foreskin cavity, it can combine with shed skin cells," -- I thought dead skin cells were parts of what smegma IS?

I edited the "human" section somewhat, mostly rearranging the material and removing some redundant material, and adding a bit more for female smegma.

I moved the pro- and anti-circ material to the end of the section, as I feel it is entirely tangential to the article; I also removed parts of the paragraph that were redundant (the material was stated elsewhere in the article) or belonged wholly in the circumcision article.

I do not believe I have shifted the artical in the direction of either circ-related POV.

I hope someone can asnwer some of the above questions, for I feel they are necessary to make this arcticle complete and clear. --Scix 08:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe your questions are pertinent, as many as they may be. I think it the article should be cleaned up to clear all this ambiguities. Maybe even someone with better knowledge should check it out like an urologist or something. Anyways, lets vote for the clean-up banner. D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 03:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Risk of Cancer Statistic is Largely Incorrect

If you look at the study cited it states that

"Among men not circumcised in childhood, phimosis was strongly associated with development of invasive penile cancer (OR = 11.4, 95% CI 5.0-25.9). When we restricted our analysis to men who did not have phimosis, the risk of invasive penile cancer associated with not having been circumcised in childhood was not elevated (OR = 0.5, 95% CI 0.1-2.5)."

Therefore, I suggest that the article be changed to show that phimosis in uncircumcised men, not uncircumcised men in generally, have a greater chance of penile cancer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WilliamACopeland (talk • contribs)

Two problems here. First, the study cited disagrees with your analysis. It states: "Men not circumcised during childhood were at increased risk of invasive (OR = 2.3, 95% CI 1.3-4.1) but not in situ (OR = 1.1, 95% CI 0.6-1.8) penile cancer. [...] Circumcision in early childhood may help prevent penile cancer by eliminating phimosis, a significant risk factor for the disease." PMID 15825185

Second, several studies (eg., Maden 1993, Schoen 2000, Tseng 2001) have reported the reduced risk in uncircumcised males, and although this study indicates that this may be due to the secondary effect of eliminating phimosis, there's less evidence for this possible mechanism than there is for the phenomenon as a whole. Jakew (talk) 16:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Accumulation

Since smegma tends to accumulate under the foreskin in males, its presence is less common and less noticeable in circumcised males.

Presumably circumcised males still produce smegma, it just accumulates in their underwear instead. 217.34.39.123 12:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently. If you have sources, add it! D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 03:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Women and smemga

Asked a female friend about this and according to her she had no idea about this and had never washed away her smemga neither had any of her female friends so do girls really suffer the same risks as men? XSpaceyx 19:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it's more about social conditioning and attitudes than about risks. Men and boys in Western countries constantly get the "penis cleanliness/hygiene" message from medical authorities. By contrast, I don't think girls are ever taught that it's a bad idea to leave the smegma hanging around.

No, girls are taught just as much as boys to wash their genitals.CerealBabyMilk 10:40, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

This conditioning is especially bad in circumcising countries like the USA. American women are conditioned to expect their partner to have an odorless penis, and are often heard complaining about the natural odor of an uncircumcised penis. (Presumably they think their vaginas smell like roses...) 217.34.39.123 12:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture Section

If this section is even needed at all, I really strongly think it should be limited. I mean, legman's is a valid English word and simply appearing in a work of fiction using the word with it's actual meaning isn't notable. I try and erase entries as they come that are just "x show said legman's" but I don't really fancy being the official legman's page guard or anything. Cheesecloth's 06:45, 13 May 2007 (ETC)

Ingestion of Smegma

Shouldn't there by a section that deals with the practice of eating smegma and the health benefits thereof? 162.83.140.13 22:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Do people actually do that?!?!?! If so, definitively! But please, whoever does it, cite sources and watch the POV. Oh, and for the sake of my already diseased stomach, do not add pictures of people eating smegma!!! D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 03:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes Dark Legion, people do eat it for health reasons, it goes by the popular name of "The Dirty Dongle Diet"

(talk) 03:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Smeg (vulgarism)

Please don't remove the reference to Smeg (vulgarism) from the article. The association between these two words, (regardless of the legitimacy of the etymology), is notable. I would even dare to guess that 95% percent of the people who come to this page are looking up the term in relation to Red Dwarf or some other use of the word "smeg". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.219.41 (talk) 02:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The very first sentence on that page is "Grant Naylor has stated it was not related to a medical term and was a made up swear word.". So there seems to be no reason whatsoever to have/keep that reference here. 85.227.226.243 09:11, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

---

The following sections relate to issue of censorship

Please confine all comments about how you personally feel about this article below, so that issues relating to the quality of the article can be constructively dealt with. Thank you all for your patience.

---

Picture of Smegma

I have removed this picture for a second time. Do not restore it. The image is disgusting and shocking, there is absolutely NO need for it to be displayed on the main page. Those who really wish to examine such gross images may freely click on the links at the end of the article, whereas the majority of people researching smegma (such as my eight year old daughter) will find a textual description entirely sufficient. Again, do not restore this image to the main page. I will remove it every time. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.236.2.188 (talk) 12:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but this isn't *your* Wikipedia! Wikipedia does not censor for minors or morality so if you wan't to remove the image do not do so unilaterally (it will only be restored anyway), but debate it here on the talk page first. If general consensus is that the image should go, then so be it. 90.202.55.160 19:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the unidentified user #2; you shouldn't remove it unilaterally. Yet I agree with unidentified user #1 that this image is disturbingly disgusting. While I was reading, I removed it with Firebug so I could just proceed with reading! Or else I would've thrown up. And I'll be honest, not much things make me sick. Even though I quite disbelieve an 8-year-old child would research such a kind of thing voluntarily, it is risky to keep it there to avoid shocking people (like me, a 20-year-old teenager haha XD). Finally, I vote against the keeping of this picture, even it might in a very abstract way hurt the freedom of experession of Wikipedia. (Btw, please create a login unidentified users) D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 03:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The picture of smegma is educational, however is needlessly disgusting. Would a diagram of some description not serve the same purpouse, without being as visually offensive? user:moore.jonathan 15:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

How can one make a diagram of smegma? The pic only shows what happens when it accumulates; a diagram of such isn't useful. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 04:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Why the fuck would an eight year old girl be researching smegma in the first place?

I say keep the pic - Wikipedia is not censored for minors or religious morality and there really isn't a way we can replace the picture with anything else. Further, I feel the pic is needed so as to show what it looks like. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 04:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I am uncircumcised and non-religious but seriously that picture is uncalled for. At least make it smaller. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.235.92 (talk) 21:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we can make it much smaller... -Jéské ^{(v^_^v Detarder)} 04:14, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I know I don't want to see that. 72.240.177.210 (talk) 01:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

And? As pointed out above, the picture is relevant in this article and there is no way to make a diagram that would do the job as well. Besides, if you don't want to see it, navigate away from the page or peruse the history. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v X of Swords)} 01:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Was it really on the main page at some point, with that pic? That is a strange choice. Merkin's mum 16:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Well thanks for all of this. Now I'm going to barf!

Who's the sick f*** that lets this grow like that? The pics are absolutely disgusting. I rather see a corpse rot than this. I'm vomiting as I type this. Sickos. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.165.58.101 (talk) 20:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

I think it is an example of the articles subject; If you do not like it, you do not have to read an article about smegma in the first place. Frankly, this novel concept first pioneered by america has been lost with people complaining about everything and expecting people to conform to what they do not "like". You want a smegma article, you get a picture of smegma. You are right, an encyclopedia may not have such a picture but encyclopedia's are on paper and probably would not wish to devote even enough room to something like smegma. But on wikipedia, we have more than enough room to expand on even the most miniscule details. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.122.44.14 (talk) 17:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC).

• • new entry**

I agree. This type of picture would never appear in a real encyclopedia. It is not appropriate and very disgusting. 69.139.8.126 21:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Read your Wikipedia policies, in particular WP:NOT#CENSORED. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 21:58, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Why? It's a picture of a normal secretion of the human body, it isn't pornographic. It serves the purpose of illustrating what smegma looks like. My hat goes off to the selfless wikipedian who resisted bathing long enough to allow that photograph to be taken. 217.34.39.123 12:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

This picture is horrible, a picture like that will not appear in any other wikipedia in other languages, where the policies are more strict. A young person who don't know the word "smegma" and surf Wikipedia to find out what is should be shoked by a gross photo like that. A spoiler should be added, or a diagram of the smegma, not the photo taken from a real dirt and disgusting penis. --82.60.188.215 10:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The picture was removed by someone on revision 149362504 without concensus. I once found myself looking for what Smegma was on the Wikipedia and I thought it was most illustrative, it allowed me to recognize its meaning without having to read a single word of the article. I guess that those who say that a picture like this would never appear on an encyclopedia never checked a medical one. Ellamosi 12:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

There is no reason why there shouldn't be a picture of smegma, it's an article about Smegma and like every other article should be supported with photographic examples. The reason Wikipedia is more strict in other languages is because of a government or relligion unfairly censoring it's content for "the greater good" of it's masses, something that is harder to do on the English site as it is so huge and spans more nations. Also, any child shocked by a neutral picture of a penis is being brought up incorrectly and will have troubles in later life... Childrens imaginations must surely conjure up more vulgar images, more regularly. It's natural. 123.51.101.245 05:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

You guys are ridiculous - this is ~not~ like any other article. When you look up "penis", you do not see a picture of a penis, you see a diagram. There is absolutely ~no~ reason to display this image on the main page. It's censorship has nothing to do with minors or whatnot, it's just disgusting.

Bullshit. The picture clearly shows smegma, and thus has encyclopedic value in this article. Take your kids and morals elsewhere. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v +2 Pen of Editing)} 01:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't show smegma, it shows a penis covered in smegma. If the entry for 'penis' showed a real penis? Then fine, this would be legit. But it doesn't, it shows a diagram. And my reasoning has nothing to do with kids (I have none) or morals (couldn't care less from that standpoint). Thanks for bringing up two non-applicable arguments in an attempt to discredit me.

No. Until Wikipedia's 'penis' article shows a picture of a penis, this picture up here will not be in line with the point or purpose of Wikipedia.

Then YOU draw a picture of smegma. The problem is that it's not really possible to make a diagram of smegma, and as such the picture has to suffice. See the section above, please. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v +2 Pen of Editing)} 04:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it should be there. If you don't like it don't look at it, don't decide whether others (minor or not) can look at it. It is not porn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.124.48.128 (talk) 20:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Female Smegma Photos

At one point, there were female smegma photos on this article. Does anyone know where they went to or from where they are sourced? I am trying to find some for a health symosium. DigitalPimpette 21:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC) http://www.the-clitoris.com/x/health/sebum2.jpg

This page is awful

I think this is just about the worst entry on all of wikipedia. It has very little information, a gross picture that isn't really educational at all, and a 'trivia' section thats longer than the valid part of the article. It also has a weird page structure with a ton of separate sections at the bottom, including a sort of random picture gallery of links that doesn't appear on any other page I know of.

It also goes off topic to talk about vaginal health of the inside of the vagina, and PH warnings and stuff that is related to general female hygiene but not specifically to smegma. Owlofcreamcheese 19:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

You'd be best requesting a peer-review of the article then. I fail to see that your taking offense at the picture is relevant to the quality of the article. There are plenty (i.e. thousands) of worse-written, worse-sourced articles. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 20:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not the picture that bugged, me, it could be worse, no picture is going to be pleasant and wikipedia should have photos of even 'gross' things. It's the fact this page follows the pattern of really bad wiki articles. The inane popular culture section especially. I cut it down a bit, but it is/was much longer than the actual informational section of the page. Every time a tv show uses a word isn't notable, it's an actual word after all! The rest of the page is just sorta weak, the off topic stuff (I removed some of it) especially, and also the sections. Why have a mammalian Smegma section if there is no other sections? I don't know, it's not just that it has a bad picture, it's a serious topic with tons and tons of articles about it, but the best we came up with is a few paragraphs, partly off topic, partly "this is true but no it's not true" then a page of every mention of the time an obscure band said "smeg" in a song? Owlofcreamcheese 20:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

it's obvious that quite a few people are offended by the picture, you disgusting homos

some idiot posted a link to this page and i didn't know what smegma was, and i thought wikipedia articles would be safe

bye —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.241.132.106 (talk) 16:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Bohoo, hide in your nutshell, puritan. D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 19:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

you don't have a job, do you dark legion, because otherwise you would understand the concept of "work safe" 129.15.131.246 (talk) 23:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

We don't do "work safe". Wikipedia is not censored for minors or morality. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 19:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The passage you're citing simply says they aren't making any guarantees - it isn't saying that gross, shocking imagery should be allowed to remain on the site. Sheesh, reading comp 101 anyone? No wonder this article's been so poorly written, the people maintaining it are morons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.54.99 (talk) 03:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Look who's talking. From that same section (emphasis added):

While obviously inappropriate content (such as an irrelevant link to a shock site) is usually removed immediately, or content that is judged to violate Wikipedia's biographies of living persons policy can be removed, some articles may include objectionable text, images, or links if they are relevant to the content (such as the articles about the penis and pornography) and do not violate any of our existing policies (especially neutral point of view), nor the law of the U.S. state of Florida, where Wikipedia's servers are hosted.

Your move. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v +2 Pen of Editing)} 06:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"(such as an irrelevant link to a shock site)" Check-and-mate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.102.148 (talk) 08:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are not shock sites (a shock site is one deliberately meant to offend the viewer; in this case the offense is a side-effect of the image). I'm afraid you just moved into the shah mat position yourself. Now, unless and until you come up with a rational argument and/or a suitable alternative, I'd stop removing the image. It's only going to be put back and the article semi-protected. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v E pluribus unum)} 08:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Exactly - that picture is from a shock-site. It was not taken to be educational, it was taken to gross people out. Someone put it on the article when this article was horrible and was filled with facts about 'smegma' trivia, among other things. When most of the article was cleaned up, for whatever reason this picture was kept, and has remained ever since. If you don't believe me, do a google images search for smegma. That picture comes up, and it's from one of those 'rotten.com' wanna-be sites.

No it's not - it's from the Commons, which is a free-media repository. Further, the pic does not show up on a Google Image search. Either you're looking up a different Google or you're making arguments to attempt to censor an image you don't agree with. Now, as I said before, please get a rational argument or stop beating the dead horse. The image is from Commons, and not from a shock site. Good day.

(PS: I apologize for linking directly to the picture at Commons, but it is pertinent to the topic at hand.)-Jéské ^{(v^_^v E pluribus unum)} 18:17, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Picture of Brie

Somewhere down the line, an image of smegma on the male organ was replaced with an image of Brie that was represented as "a food item prepared for human consumption." If there was any indication that this was plagiarism, THAT would be it. That said, I've reverted the act of vandalism. Ultatri (talk) 06:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Reverted it. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 19:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

No really, this page is horrible

n/t - 129.15.131.246 (talk) 00:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• If it is really that horrible, then don't look at it.131.123.68.50 (talk) 06:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

We do not censor for minors or morality. You don't like the content, don't navigate to the page. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v +2 Pen of Editing)} 07:50, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Desaturate the picture

a black and white version of the picture may be less objectionable to many. if you are using windows XP try clicking on the start button and then "Turn Off Computer" if you wait a short while everthing except the "turn off computer" dialog box changes to black and white. this will give you an indication of what the picture will look like in black and white. any comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.7.53.75 (talk) 23:22, 8 April 2008

A black and white picture will still be objectionable to many, and you'd have to ask someone skilled at Photoshop or GIMP to do it. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v X of Swords)} 23:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Removing all of the pictures of Muhammad may be less objectionable to many. Thankfully, Wikipedia is not censored. MantisEars (talk) 23:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Issues with Jéské

off-topic interpersonal issues
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I am firmly convinced that (personal attack(s) redacted (again) by Jéské (v^_^v E pluribus unum)) Well done, Jeske! There's a picture of a dirty penis on an article about smegma. Are you fulfilled? : P (Btw if you're not one, okay, keep on doing your thing, but I gotta ask, what's with the obsession with that dirty penis? O_o) For starters, I didn't put the picture up - it was here before I even got involved on this article. Secondly, I'm not laughing. I'm actually a bit peeved because of some users' puritanical views, and, if you'd noticed, I'm not the one readding the pic at present - I have other things on my plate. However, I find your last comment as incivil. I do not have an obsession with the picture - and indeed, were it possible to replace it with a diagram, I'd be pushing for the diagram. Alas, we have no available diagram, and due to the nature of the material, having one would be confusing (is it smegma or something worse?), making such a diagram useless. Hence, the smegma shall go forth. By the by, I took the liberty of redacting all your personal attacks. Please refrain from referring to other users - whether myself, another registered user, or an IP - as such in the future. -Jéské (v^_^v E pluribus unum) 08:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC) The pic will stay; it's informative and clearly pertinent to the article subject. Wikipedia is not censored, if you don't like it, don't look at it. Dropping in from WP:AN, R. Baley (talk) 08:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC) A troll is not a personal insult, it's a term for someone who's deliberately trying to get under other people's skin. I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you're only pushing for this picture (even though it's clearly, obviously not educational/valuable) because you enjoy seeing the "oh come on, what the heck" reactions from people. Baloney. On Wikipedia, "troll" is as severe a personal attack as any, especially if you have no evidence to back up your claims. As such, I have, once again, redacted the personal attack. Now, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop trying to censor Wikipedia. The image comes from Commons, not a shock site, and there is no equitable and less-explicit image available, so we have to make do. -Jéské (v^_^v E pluribus unum) 18:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC) "As such, I have, once again, redacted the personal attack. Now, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop trying to censor Wikipedia." - you say as you edit the word 'troll' out of my posts. : P At the end of the day it only makes wikipedia look like a joke to have shock-value material on articles, and to have this material being vehemently protected by editors makes it all the more ridiculous... but hey, if you're going to poo-poo me for trying to clean it up, have it your way. Oh, and in looking through this discussion page, you actually made a comment to someone to "Take your kids and morals elsewhere." Yikes! Someone oughta redact that - we can't have personal attacks, after all. (I'd do it, but any change I make to this article gets reverted anyway, so I'd rather leave it in the hands of the authorities.)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.102.148 (talk) 01:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

A simple solution

this section is not about censorship, but discussing a possible improvement to the article.

crop the pic so that the smegma is shown but not most of the head of the penis. Then it will still depict the subject of the article - in fact better as it won't have the 'knob' to distract from it. I don't have an image editing program on my MAC but I can download one later today and show you all how it looks so you can give an opinion.Merkin's mum 12:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

it's already cropped a bit, but I think I could crop a bit more so it just leaves a slight rim at the top. Merkin's mum 12:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

- now I know the quality of my efforts is not great but what do you all think of the concept- I think it highlights the subject of the article rather than making it focus on the bell end. Merkin's mum 17:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so sure the presence of the bell is the issue; it's the presence of the smegma in the pic itself and the fact it's on a sexual organ. However, I'm willing to give this a shot. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v E pluribus unum)} 18:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason why the current image should change. It's an effective and appropriate illustration for this article. Thanks, Verum (talk) 18:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It's also very controversial, as you can see above. Most of the IPs above want it out of the article, and even I agree that we need a different picture. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v E pluribus unum)} 19:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This pic removes some of the bell, which gives it more of a clinical, medical look exhibiting the substance IMHO. People wouldn't see it so much as sexual as they did with a knob, instead seeing it as medical or biological. We needn't be stubborn for the sake of it, we could avoid some of the edit wars, comments etc. My partner says it's still not pretty, though.:) Merkin's mum 20:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

As an aside- it will also stop as many people thinking it's not good for kids to view, or not work-safe. Why not have a compromise rather than argue. Also, I assure you, wikipedia is censored in many articles, anyway.:) Hence we have "wikipedians against censorship".Merkin's mum 20:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It will stop some arguments, but not nearly all of them -- you yourself may not be the one to propose the next compromise, but I'd be willing to bet somebody else will come along to do it to stop the next argument, and then we'll be sliding down a bit further. Compromise should not be an end unto itself. We're not being stubborn "for the sake of it," we're being stubborn because this is an encyclopedia, and people should expect to find relevant, educational information here. That said, I do appreciate innovation, and trying to look at old problems from new angles is a good trait. Exploring possible image replacements sounds like a worthwhile endeavor. This particular proposal seems to have lost some image quality, while being enlarged and rotated. Omitting the head of the penis may reduce controversy, but zooming in this far also robs the image of some context: it's very hard to tell what, if anything, this incredibly zoomed in clump of pixels represents. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with changing the pic to the new version. ANY pic is going to be unpleasant; this is less unpleasant than what is already there. 128.232.228.174 (talk) 08:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)