Talk:Department store

I've jumped in and dramatically changed the lead for this article. I think this gets closer to an objective definition of department store. I'd be interested in whether consumers outside the United States recognize the same distinctions as the US Census. I don't think deprecating department store is appropriate, given its common usage. --Russ Jones 15:00, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't think of Marks and Spencer as a department store and I don't think that many people in the UK do. The term is more narrowly defined outside the US Philip 06:14, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Where did that whole idea of using department store to describe discount stores come from? ==

I live in California and also here it would be strange to call a discount store a department store. I have been to Marks & Spencer (specifically the now-closed branch in Paris that was across the street from the big department stores) and M&S is definitely not a department store by West Coast American standards; it's more similar to the Ross Dress For Less chain in the U.S., which calls itself a discount store.

I have no idea where that "junior department store" wording came from in the article. Anyone care to defend it?

If no one does, I'll edit the article in a few weeks to minimize it and deprecate it as an archaic usage. I think the vast majority of English speakers read "department store" as referring to a very big store with many distinct departments that caters to the middle and upper classes.

--Coolcaesar 20:10, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The term "junior department store" is (or was) used in the industry, see e.g. [1]. Though [2] suggests it is deprecated (both as a term and perhaps as a format. The artice on five and dime should be referenced in this regard. So we get the question, what is Sears? Many of the stores are 1 story, they are opening smaller stores that are more Target like (and moreso I suspect after the merger with KMart. I've been to the M&S in Edinburgh, Scotland, and it seems like a Department Store to me, it had non-clothing items, as well as a nice supermarket. It was no Nordstrom, but that just means it was not an upscale Mall store. dml 23:40, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

--Axcordova 04:31, 23 July 2005 (UTC) Having worked in the 'department store' business for 15 years now (in the US) I can tell you I have never come across the term "junior department store". There are indeed various tiers of department stores. The tiers are divided into three basic categories: Discount (Target, Wal Mart, K Mart), Full Line or Mass retailer (Sears, JC Penney, Macy's, May Co), and Specialty (Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue and Nordstrom). Discounters sell a varied range of goods with lower mark-up. Mass Retailers are essentially the "department store" as they were grown from and defined the category (RH Macy to become Macy's owned by Federated). They sell both apparel and domestics (clothing, textiles, houswares) and often 'hard lines' (washing machines, furniture). Specialty retailers offer a precisely edited line of apparel and little or no hard lines. A higher level of personalized service is often a major differentiation in the category. "Specialty retail" is also applied to retailers that are smaller in square footage but also may sell at lower price points. They are specialty nonetheless due to their narrow product categories specifically aimed to a particular demographic (Banana Republic, Zara, Williams Sonoma). Though these retailers may or may not offer the high degree of customer service they often employ at a higher associate to customer ratio than the discounter or mass retailer. Often the term 'big box' is used. Big Box is just that, architecturally a big box. The term is mostly applied to retailers that operate in large, volumous space with few divisions of space (KMart, Wal Mart, Home Depot, etc.). In the US the term 'big box' often connotes a sense of corporate blandness and lower brow goods. However that is not necessarily true in the case of Nordstrom. Nordstrom is classifed as specialty retailer (or sometimes incorrectly refered to as "specialty department store") with high price point and a high level of service. Nordstrom is intentionally designed in the model of the big box but with plusher materials (lots of marble and wood). This is intentional on their part in order to create clear and open sight lines and open space in order to create a sense of openess. Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue stick to the more traditional department store architectural format of niched spaces, meandering aisles, often in the form of the racetrack oval to insure customer circulation. Lastly, the traditional department store (Macy's, Bloomingdale's, Robinson May) with it's cut-up space, multi levels, niches and aisles derived from the early retailers offering a mix of highly segmented goods (everything from gloves to pianos) sold in one large building. It was only natural that the space was designed as architecturaly segemented in a series of 'shops'. In a sense the traditional department store format is the earliest form of the shopping mall: lots of small 'shoplets' contained in a larger space.