Talk:Moni Aizik

Moni and Krav Maga

In the 1970s, shortly after the Yom Kippur War, Moni was asked to improve upon the army's existing hand-to-hand combat system. With his knowledge of martial arts including various Israeli Fighting systems, Jujutsu and Judo, Moni was asked to develop a more effective combat program specifically designed for certain Special forces, which is now known as Krav Maga.

I reverted the removal of the previous paragraph because the information was cited and seemed to be true based off the citation. If anyone wants to dispute this information by providing reliable sources showing he had nothing to do with the formation of Krav Maga, I'll be happy to assume this is some sort of promotional material and leave it out. Themfromspace (talk) 03:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• I looked over the Real Fighting site and could not find the owners name. If this is Moni Aizis web site, the statements in the wiki article should be presented as verified quotations rather than verified facts. jmcw (talk) 10:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• The ASA assessment concerns 'Commando Krav Maga' advertising. It makes no comment about the web site under discussion. Who is the author of the web site? Is it a primary source?jmcw (talk) 10:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The website is an interview, so yes, it is a primary source. RogueNinja_talk 13:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it may have been carried over from the merge of commando krav maga info when that was deleted.

• It is an interview. The quality of the reference depend on the interviewer: they bear responsobility for verifying the accuracy of the statements in an interview. To resolve the slow edit war, we need some answers:

1. Who is the interviewer? Is he reliable? I do not find his name anywhere.

His name appears to be WR Mann.

1. Who is realfighting.com? Is it reliable? Is it a personal blog? From whom?

An interview with WR Mann about realfighting.com [1]

1. Is there any other reference available?

Attributed to Eyal Yanilov: "Perhaps he can kill us all in two seconds, but Moni is not teaching Krav Maga." [2]

Look, the ASA agrees that Moni was never in the special forces. Besides making all interviews with him suspect, it also means he was never asked to redesign the military's self defense program. I am removing the paragraph.

Lieutenant Yuval Aran, Israeli Defense Force

Sir/Madam,

I am a current serving officer in the Israeli Defense Force.

The page on the subject of Moni Aizik and Krav Maga contains false and misleading information, and I am requesting that it be corrected.

The following paragraph is false:

In the 1970s, shortly after the Yom Kippur War, Moni was asked to improve upon the army's existing hand-to-hand combat system. With his knowledge of martial arts including various Israeli Fighting systems, Jujutsu and Judo, Moni was asked to develop a more effective combat program specifically designed for certain Special forces, which is now known as Krav Maga[1].

Moni Aizik did not serve in the Israeli Defense Force in any capacity that dealt with hand-to-hand combat, self-defense, or krav maga training/instruction. Moni Aizik was never asked to improve upon any areas of the Israeli Defense Force’s combat, self-defense, krav maga systems. This information can easily be verified by asking Mr. Aizik to produce his military discharge certificate, a document issued to every single individual discharged from his/her military service with the IDF. Mr. Aizik refuses to produce this document to all who request it stating that it is classified due to his involvement with the Israeli Special Forces.

Inspection of Mr. Aizik’s military discharge certificate will confirm that he did not serve in the Special Forces, that he has no background or certification in counter terrorism, that he had no contact or responsibility with krav maga in the IDF at any time during his service, and that he was discharged from service with the rank of Sergeant as opposed to the rank of Lieutenant or Major as he claims in various publications. This is the only reason as to why Mr. Aizik refuses to provide proof of his military service, proof that if he were telling the truth, would only corroberate his claims.

Krav Maga was developed by Imi Lichtenfeld. In 1948 Mr. Lichtenfeld was appointed as the Israeli Defense Force’s Chief Commander and served that duty until 1968. He then appointed one of his top students, Mr. Eli Avikzar, to replace him who served that position untill 1988. At no time during Mr. Aizik’s service, did he ever come into professional contact with any of these two individuals.

There exists no evidence whatsoever that Moni Aizik had anything to do with Krav Maga. This is information that can easily be verified through official resources including the Israeli Defense Force, the Israeli Ministry of Defense, the Israeli Ministry of Education, and the Israeli Ministry of Culture. Further, if a simple internet search were conducted on krav maga, it would show that any sources related to Moni Aizik contain their own accounts of the history of krav maga, the development/creation of krav maga, and Moni Aizik’s involvement with krav maga in the Israeli Defense Force, while every other source, including those of all the current standing krav maga organizations contain a completely different account of krav maga which is unified, consistant, and negates Mr. Moni Aizik’s self-created account.

A statement was made that the paragraph in question would remain unchanged on the Wiki/Moni Aizik page due to the fact that it contained citations. The citations noted as supporting factors to this paragraph come from www.realfighting.com, a private website created by and belonging to Mr. W.R. Mann. Mr. Mann has no official standing contact or experience with the Israeli Defense Force or Israeli Ministry of Defense and has no means of verifying and corroborating the replies he received from Moni Aizik during his interview with Mr. Aizik where he received the cited information. Therefore, Wiki’s stand on not making the necessary amendmants to the Moni Aizik page using the realfighting.com citations as sufficient grounds is unacceptable and holds no merit.

On that same point, it should be noted that all the listed citation sources about Mr. Moni Aizik on the Wiki/Moni page are direct resources of Mr. Moni Aizik himself, and that none are independent official resources.

Further, it should also be noted that Wikipedia.com already contains a separate page on Krav Maga, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_maga, and in this page the information is not only accurate and factual, but it contains absolutely no mention of Mr. Moni Aizik in any capacity. The Wikipedia Krav Maga page and the Moni Aizik/krav maga page contradict one another in factual information, and the krav maga page uses citations from independent official, credible, and verifiable sources.

It should be noted that Mr. Moni Aizik’s motives for the misleading and untruthfull information on the Wikipedia site are self serving and self promoting for the purpose of profit. Mr. Moni Aizik developed a martial arts system called Combat Survival in the late 1970’s. In 2001, after the 9/11 attacks, Krav Maga became a very popular self defense system across North America and it was only at that point that Mr. Aizik changed the name of his system to Commando Krav Maga (CKM) to include the name Krav Maga in an attempt to lead the public to believe that his system was an official form of Krav Maga. Mr. Aizik also engineered an elaborate false story about his military background, which included the claim that he “was assigned to improve the IDF’s hand-to-hand combat system where the result of that task was the creation of his own system called Commando Krav Maga which was then to be used and is still currently used as the Israeli Special Force’s official hand-to-hand combat system.”

All the information noted above are verifiable facts. Given the fact that Wikipedia.com is regarded as a source for research on valid information, I am requesting that the above mentioned paragraph be removed and banned so as to reflect the truth and not confuse the public with any perceived association between Krav Maga, the official hand-to-hand combat system of the Israeli Defense Force, and Moni Aizik and his self-created system of Commando Krav Maga.

Respectfully,

Yuval Aran, Lieutenant Israeli Defense Force —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmmotp (talk • contribs) 12:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you for the additional information. Wiki is built on verifiable references (not on Truth). You have asserted All the information noted above are verifiable facts. If you can show me these reference here on the talk page, I would be glad to update the article. I am personally not satisfied with this article but we need references to avoid personal points of view. jmcw (talk) 09:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)