Talk:United Pentecostal Church International

How can they say this is one of the "fastest growing"? These types of organizations are declining in favor of non-denominational megachurches.

Nothing about UPCI is "fastest growing". There are only 2 UPC churches with more than 2,000 in attendance on Sundays -- a figure unchanged in the past 10 years. Clearly people who assert that UPCI is "fast growing" know nothing of fast growing churches.

I feel that this article places too much of an emphasis on what Pentecostals are not allowed to do. That does not represent the religion in an honest way. I feel that someone should rewrite this article in a more open way that gets more into what we believe and not just how we dress.

I concur. I am a full-time UPC minister and have updated the page, deleting people's politics regarding our doctrines. Wikipedia is supposed to be a site where you can find unbiased informative facts regarding different topics, places, people, organizations, etc. This is not a forum to voice personal greivances against whatever local church you may have affiliated yourself with. The United Pentecostal Church is an organization, not a person. If you have issue with a pastor or a local church, start a blog, but you cannot use this site to lambast an entire organization.

(69.239.125.174 01:05, 4 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]

I disagree with you. If you take a look at every other page on Wikipedia, you will find that they all have a Neutral Point Of View. Just because you disagree with someone's politics regarding your doctrine doesn't give you the right to delete their comments. You have to leave them there. If this page only shows the point of view of persons like yourself, it will be very one sided and by no means neutral. Also, there are people mentioned in the prominent persons affiliated section that aren't and haven't been affiliated with the UPCI organization. Elvis was raised a Pentecostal, but not a United Pentecostal. The Presidents listed were not affiliated with the organization either, you need to list references for this, both Bushes are Episcopalian, Reagen was Presbyterian, not sure about Clinton. David Robinson attends a non denominatinal church pastored by Max Lucado. Honestly the entire section should be deleted, because the only "prominent" people listed aren't involved in the organization. The other people are only prominent within the organization. I won't be the person to make that decision though, wouldn't want to be accused of "voicing my personal grievances"...again!

--Icj tlc 23:15, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I too feel that the information provided is quite dogmatic in its tone. I'm a 30 year old, 3rd generation UPC lady and am personally glad of some of the "restrictions". In an era where the line between genders has been blurred dramatically and sometimes completely erased, it is refreshing to be able to be instantly recognized as a lady - notice I did not say woman, for there are many young and older women that leave no doubt as to their anatomy.

While an encyclopedia can never expect to put the "real face" on a subject, the basic facts are correct. However, unless you experience Pentecost for yourself you will never know the true joy of a reltionship with Christ. While some UPC'ers may not like this - You don't have to attend a UPC church to experience Pentecost. God is pouring out His spirit on all flesh as He promised in the book of Joel - and I am THRILLED that other denominations are coming to experience my Lord and Savior in the fullness of His glory and holiness.

I urge anyone that is looking for a change in their life to seek out a local church and come to know Christ - He really loves you!

October 5, 2005

I agree with the above (August 24) person. I am also proud of the fact that I keep myself, as a man, properly dressed. I delight in the fact that when I marry an apostolic woman, I know that I will be the first person she has given herself to! I know that she glorifies God in the way she chooses to live her life! I think that we should use the NPOV, in that we do dress ourselves in a manner that isn't consistent with the rest of the world. On the other hand, our dress is not the basis of what we believe, and shouldn't be put in front as if it is our foundation. Rather, that salvation is repentance from sin; full immersion, water baptism in the name of Jesus see Oneness_Pentecostal; and the requirement of the infilling of the Holy Ghost Acts 2:38, with evidence of speaking in other tongues as The Spirit gives the utterance.

You are all full of it, I grew up Pentecostal and I know both the fore side and the back side of it, I know what goes on in the board rooms and what goes on in the motels at Youth Conventions. I know that to you apearances are more important than a true relationship with Jesus Christ. Read the above for reference, the first idiot's remarks include the phrase "my Lord and Savior" what happened to OUR Lord and Savior? She didn't even leave a signature so that those of us that were damaged by organized religion can respond. That is the problem with Pentecostals they believe that only they will be saved. The rest of us are going to burn in Hell, if you don't believe me, ask one. Ask if Catholics, Lutherans, or Presbyterians will be in Heaven. Why is it that neither of you bigots left a signature. Read a Bible and learn about love. Better yet, learn about the history of the church, when did Jesus ever say, you must repent and be baptized and speak in tongues? He didn't. All he said was believe. Here's my email address for any of you that have a problem [crsmith@lsi.fnf.com]--Icj tlc 23:35, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- I feel badly that the above person has had a bad experience. It just goes to show that only attending a church does nothing for a persons relationship with God. Pro 27:19 As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man. When asked, Jesus said that to see the kingdom of God, you must be baptized. [mauger@gmail.com]

I did not have a "bad experience", a bad experience is when you go out to eat Sushi and get a bad catch and end up having your stomach pumped. The UPC ruined my entire life for a very long time. Give me scripture, if you are referencing his conversation with Nicodemus, he sayed, "unless a man be born again, he can never enter the Kingdom of Heaven," he coninues to say, "unless a man is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven." Everywhere in the New Testament where someone is specifically talking about baptism it is called baptism. Nowhere does Jesus say baptism, and anyone that says he did is putting words in His mouth, also know as "adding to or taking away" from the Scriptures. If you want to get into a biblical debate that's fine, but lets continue it in email. Not here. I am not disagreeing with UPC doctrines, what I disagree with is the thought that only "they" will be saved. I know alot of people that were involved with the UPC for a long time, and due to this attitude and belief have left, almost all of them, with the exception of my 75 year old grandmother, believe that the UPC should be considered at least cult-like if not a full blown cult. By definition a cult is a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided or unorthodox, a self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective. By any description of the UPC, it meets these criteria. I feel bad for those that are involved in the organization and pray daily that they will be delivered.--Icj tlc 17:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC) PS You don't need to feel badly for me, a result of my experience with the organization has led me to a more relevant and wonderful relationship with Jesus Christ. I just wish that everyone could know Him like I do. PSS I Timothy 4:10 In fact, we labor and strive for this, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is Savior of everyone, especially those who believe. (Emphasis mine)[reply]

Buddy you might have Grown up in the Church but by the way you talk you were not a part of the Church. Read your Bible, Ok you tell me what bieng born of the water is.

Exactly what did I say, that leads you to believe I am not a part of the Church. Also by "part of the Church" do you mean the UPC? Or do you mean Church as in the body of Christ? PS If your going to make comments regarding what someone said, the least you could do is sign your name, buddy!

--Icj tlc 23:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)----[reply]

I'm not going to get into a theology debate with you, as you have made it very clear that you know where we stand (the "foreside" and "backside" I think you said). However, I will say that I'm very sorry for whatever happened to you at whatever church it was you were affiliated with. The problem with the church is, and always will be, the people. Whatever they did to you obviously hurt very much, again, I say I'm sorry. I too have had horrible experiences with some people in our organization, and I too feel frustrated with those of us who believe that we're the only ones saved (as if the UPC has a monopoly on Heaven). No exceptions or qualifiers, just wanted to tell you I'm sorry for what's happened. It's a shame. I'm glad that you've moved on and feel you have a more relevant and wonderful relationship with The Lord. I hope you don't take this wrong, but I do find it a bit contradictory that you lecture about God's Love and learning how to love, to the same people that you have labeled 'bigots' and 'idiots'. The love of Christ is about loving those who are the least lovable to us. Perhaps in all of this, God is speaking to you about learning how to love everybody, even those of us in the UPC organization. Don't feel bad for those involved in the organization. I've traveled all over the country in this organization and have found it to be comprised of mostly decent, honest, people-loving and Christ-centered people. Feel bad for those in the organization who use thier positions to manipulate and bemean (as happens in all organized religions), for they are the modern-day Pharisees. "Vipers", John the Baptist appropriately called them. (Dcmcgov 01:32, 4 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]

Image deletion

The image will likely be deleted soon in accordance with the new image policy. Fred-Chess 20:28, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]