Talk:British Mirpuris
Mirpuris are from pakistan. Government wanted to make a damn so paid mirpuris money to move. most used this money to come england instead of going to an urban area in pakistan. Hence when they came to england they lived like villagers and hence all the problems in UK with pakistanis, such as uneduation, forced marriages etc and failure to integrate in the community as compared to other more educated pakistani families.
RE:Dam nonsense, I say!
I feel its important to clarify the fact that "Mirpuris" started coming to the UK long before Mangla Dam was built. The earliest Kashmiri person to have to have settled in Britain is thought to have been a Kashmir woman called Jani who married a British office Major Robert Thorpe. The people of Mirpur have had a history of migrating to other parts of the world seeking work as limited agricultural land in the region and non-existent jobs in other areas forced them to go and work on ships in Bombay (or what is known as Mumbai today) a number of people landed in Britain while employed on ships mainly as labourers and chose to live here. The construction of Mangla Dam meant that the few who had stayed back and worked in agriculture had lost their livelihood too and sought to migrate. This migration had to be to a country where their countrymen had already been migrating to for a number of years, hence the influx to Britain began and thousands landed in England and other parts of Britain in the sixties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.170.128.248 (talk) 22:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
In response to the previous mumble jumble hypothesis
"Dear fellow readers / writers,
I feel the need to justify my well valued action on behalf of some of the Pahari community, of whom feel deeply offended by previous statements. The reason as to why I have edited the page, is that as for those of you whom do not seem to care much about "Pahari bashing", many people are chastisised and labeled "mirpuri", when they have carried no such label to their heritage seen as far as they can remember. Thus many see this as a derogotary term that outsiders use for them, should you choose to confirm this, do take the time out to do primary research and see on the internet or face to face conversation with Pahari people from the Pahari block of Azad Kashmir, how they are discriminated against by other groups and labelled a term that for many of them is alien, and some will tell you how much they hate the term. These people are Pahari speaking, now let us cease to have this "Mirpuri" nonsense and do justice to humanity, by seeing them for the people they are and realising how they feel and what they want. I shall urge you therefore to if you see fit add anything else to the page, but please do acknowledge that some do see this as derogotary"
The above being my last comments before being removed without a reason being given. Discussion is about both sides of the argument, I am disgusted at the fact that an individual in this discussion board may feel that he/she has the right to delete posts and alienate fellow viewers/readers from being exposed to different strands of arguments on the subject/s being discussed - this is an action which I find unacceptable.
Furthermore, it would only be fair to inform the individual who posted the last strand that it is true that the people of Mirpur are from Azad Kashmir, and many choose to identify themselves with Pakistan, however some organisations/groups such as the UN do not hold the same belief and it would be unfair to not take this into account when discussing the semantics of the label " Mirpuri".
Secondly, it is valid to argue that the creation of the Mangla Dam extracted from many people from Mirpur their lands, histories, art and established lifestyles, however it would be incorrect to argue that this was the case for all the people originating from or whom trace their ancestry to Mirpur, for many sold their land ( to other buyers as opposed to selling to the government) in order to pave a passage to the UK and secondly the development of the Mangla Dam did not affect all the people who reside in Mirpur today - for the boundaries have since changed.
Also may I point out that those whom were paid compensation received from the government monies for which the government purchased the lands of the citizens of Mirpur- this was after all their ancestral homeland and thus this was their due ( though it may have been a lot less than adequate) Do forgive my approach but I fail to see the light in what you are trying to argue? Either argument that you may choose to adopt both can lead to the conclusion that the people of Mirpur of whom some migrated to the UK paved their passage with their own money- regardless of how they earned this money, it was their due- they have the spending power as a consumer to spend as and how they may wish whether they choose to reside in an "urban" or rural area is not a matter for us to ponder upon.
This by no means allows us to make any type of generalisations about what wholly triggered the migration of the people of Mirpur. Nevertheless, some may have obtained their money through compensation but this is their personal matter and furthermore there were people from Mirpur who migrated to England much before the creation of the Mangla Dam. May I reiterate that I do not have an issue with the fact that these are your views but rather with the fact that you tried to remove the views of others - which does not allow a firm ground for argument and discussion.
What continues, is a quote from your last post. "Hence when they came to england they lived like villagers and hence all the problems in UK with pakistanis, such as uneduation, forced marriages etc and failure to integrate in the community as compared to other more educated pakistani families."
The above quote to me seems like a mere generalisation for one, I for one do not understand what you are trying to point out by saying that the people of Mirpur lived like "villagers" in England and thus could not integrate. Do you propose to argue that those native English citizens whom live in villages are not integrated?
Is village life a sign of total alienation? Britain does have its villages and villagers of whom many are well integrated as we all know; the popular British soap "Emmerdale" is set in a village setting and is viewed by many English people - so how well does this fit into your hypothesis about village life?
Secondly, the above quote suggests that you are arguing that the problems of forced marriages and lack of education ( I feel that is what you may mean by your spelling of "uneduation") are problems associated with village life? If you would care to do a little reading you will see that there are villages in England where education thrives and to say the least there has been no recent report of forced marriage as far as I am aware, if there is then please do direct me to the source.
Thus I feel that it would be valid to argue that your argument has no firm basis. Furthermore it would be valid to argue that your post is a perfect example of mere generalisations.
Should you feel that I have misinterpreted any of your views do feel free to respond and provide any critical evaluation/ constructive criticisms, as this is exactly what discussion is about and I would very much appreciate to see this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.194.158 (talk) 20:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Mirpur is not in Jammu, it's in Kashmir
Please people for sake of quality articles, can you keep politics to yourselves: I have made several changes to this article, as Mirpur is being referred to as being in Jammu when it is clearly in Kashmir, or rather "Azad Kashmir" or Pakistani-Administered Kashmir, I'm sure I've now covered all the political areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azad_Kashmir
""""Contrary to the efforts of many Mirpuri people to identify themselves as Kashmiri, they are from the Jammu area and are Jammuites. Many belong to the Punjabi castes such as the Jatts, Choudharys, Sudhans, Rajput etc. Kashmiris on the other hand are a Dardic people who speak the koshur language and are culturally and linguistically totally different to Mirpuris.""""
Please! Surely you have something against these people, however this is an encyclopedia, not a bashing wall! Therefore I have removed the above extract. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.230.26 (talk) 19:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Mirpur is in the Jammu part of AZAD JAMMU & KASHMIR (AJK)- Pakistani administered
^^^^To the above ^^^^
Please go read some history as well as geography. Mirpur is in Jammu, Kashmir is ONLY THE KASHEER VALLEY where the people speak kashmiri (koshur). Mirpur was packaged within Jammu in 1852 by the British who used the River Jhelum as demarcation of the borders between Jammu & kashmir and Punjab. Also the Pakistani administered area is ALSO CALLED Azad JAMMU & Kashmir (AJK). Please don't distort facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.188.155 (talk) 04:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
RE: Mirpur is in the Jammu part of AZAD JAMMU & KASHMIR (AJK)- Pakistani administered
I'm not distorting facts, on the contrary, far from it. Mirpur is no longer referred to as being in 'Jammu'. 'AZAD JAMMU & KASHMIR (AJK)' refers to the whole area of Pakistani Adminstered Kashmir. You will find no reference to 'Jammu' being marked as a district or a state on offical Pakistani Administered Kashmir maps, on the other hand 'Jammu' is clearly marked on official Indian Administered Kashmir maps. I would surmise that the local populace do not even consider themselves as being in 'Jammu', as it does not exist as any sort of entity, it once did, but not anymore. I think what we have to bear in mind is that borders change and names of places change, this has been a continuing trend throughout history. For example 'Mercia' was one of the kingdoms of the Anglo-Saxon Heptarchy. It was located in the valley of the River Trent in the region today known as the Midlands. Today, it would be incorrect to say Birmingham is in 'Mercia' and the people are known as 'Mercians'. Whether you like it or not the word 'Kashmir' has become an identity of the people of Pakistani Administered Kashmir even though they do not speak 'Koshur'. To give another example, take the word 'Afghan', though historically synonymous with the Pashtun people, is today promoted as a national identity for a whole range of ethnic groups in Afghanistan. It is quite lucid that your motives for this article are purely political. From what I can tell you seem to have an aversion for the so called 'Mirpuri' people. I suggest you get over it as life is too short and rather than harboring hatred, enjoy life.
Dear Writers,
Lets get a few things clear. As far as the world is concerned the place is called Kashmir. Full stop. That's it. No one people is more Kashmiri than the other. They are all Kashmiris. Know that was not difficult was it!!! Regional identifies do exist. There is nothing wrong with that. For example Mirpuri, Ladhaki etc Whats the problem? You people have a problem with this? Unity bothers you people? We should divide ourselves? This kind of nonsense is not going to benefit us.
The Kashmir people as a whole don't have a brain. Its probably because of that reason that so many areas were put together and called Kashmir. That's the reality whether we like it or not. I for one would have no problem being separate and Mirpuri if the people of Kashmir don't want me. It does not bother me.
Everybody wants to feel important. Well I say Kashmiris, Kosher Language etc Keep it. IF THAT'S THE WAY YOU FEEL ABOUT IT!!!! I have an identity! I am MIRPURI AND THAT'S FINE BY ME!!!
Do you think I would want to part of a group of people who despise me, hate me? Wrong, nobody puts up with that. I REALLY HATE THIS SUPERIORITY RUBBISH.
By the way not all mirpuris are uneducated I have a BSC degree!! I can read and write in English and Urdu.
RACIAL STEREOTYPES HAVE NO PLACE IN A CIVIL SOCIETY.