Talk:Grief knot
I think there are two different versions of this knot. Check this out (a knot I discovered one day by experimentally tying two sheet bends together):
http://kidsquid.com/misc/whatknot.jpg
The above knot, when loose, can be manipulated into the wikipedia grief knot. However, when tied as shown in the above picture, it binds tight when the long ends are pulled. I attribute this to the two dangling ends. When the what-knot on my page is tightened, the dangling ends cross and the knot stays together. It shows no signs of unraveling. In fact, if the ends are uncrossed and the long ends are pulled again, it re-crosses the dangling ends again to restore itself. The grief knot is deprived of this.. You can change between the two "versions" of this knot by crossing the dangling ends twice over.
Perhaps topologically the knots are the same, but this knot reacts very differently depending on the way the ends are crossed. I'd love to hear a more knowledable opinion on this knot's behavior..
-- Never mind! The external link explained this very nicely :) I think I go one step further though, by giving the ends two twists rather than just one.
"Trick Knot" instead of "Bend"
This is a great trick knot. It's primary use is as a trick, or to complete the set in the "Reef Knot Family". It could be mentioned as a REALLY bad bend, but it *is* a trick knot, isn't it? It's mentioned in the List of trick knots already - Adxm 21:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- I've moved it to be in the binding knot category for consistency with the rest of the reef knot family. Apparently can be used as a bend in flat material like grass where it's called a Grass bend ABOK #1490, and with the ends pulled back forming two interlocked half-hitchs and seized to become the Reeving-line bend #1459. However I completely agree that until these variations are pictured and discussed fully, it's probably best to discourage the use of the Grief knot except as a trick knot... --Dfred 05:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Although the Grief knot IS a trick knot and in the unlock position it is totally unable to hold, it should not be forgotten that in the lock position it is an exceptionally GOOD knot, locking up strongly and showing no risk of draw through or deformation. In addition to its stability, the ability to unlock the knot even after moderate loading, makes it in my book a highly valuable knot where its limitations are understood - indeed more valuable than the Reef.
Furthermore, the ability to use this knot to demonstrate both positive and negative 'cogging' makes this one of the 'must have' knots on any training course intended to improve knotting comprehension.
DerekSmith (talk) 15:08, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Clarified "portmanteau" sentence
Changed "Its name is a portmanteau" to "Its name is an example of a portmanteau" (when I first read the article, I thought the knot itself was alternatively named a "portmanteau knot"!)