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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kayohk (talk | contribs) at 16:18, 20 January 2010 (→‎The Short List). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Archived talk page and offer to help

I've archived the talk page so it is easier to navigate this page (less scrolling, etc.). The students working on this article for WP:MRR should feel free to ask me any questions about researching and writing this article or editing on Wikipedia in general, as I am here to help. I look forward to seeing this article improve over the course of the semester! Awadewit (talk) 16:48, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography

Hey group! Just wondering if anyone has found some good sources for our wiki article?

Liz, were you able to get to Irving? Any luck? --Kayohk (talk) 00:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Long List

So group! Here's the deal, once you have your articles/books picked out, edit this section and just add them into our list to create one final list in a simple fashion... Once you hit the edit button, just follow the formatting already existing in the page as you add the texts in. It's pretty straight forward I think. Only add new texts, we don't want any repeats. Hope that works! --Medge88 (talk) 05:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Books
Magical Realism. Theory, History, Community. Zamora and Faris
Varieties of Magic Realism Zlotchew
Magic Realism. Social context and discourse. Angulo
Comentarios filologicos sobre el realismo magico Camacho Delgado (Spanish text: ok or no?)
Catching Butterflies. Bringing magical realism to ground. Takolander
A Companion to Magical Realism Hart and Wen-chin
Uncertain Mirrors. Magical realisms in US ethnic literatures. Benito, Manzanas and Simal
Historia verdadera del realismo mágico Menton
Realismo mágico y lo real maravilloso : una cuestión de verosimilitud : espacio y actitud en cuatro novelas latinoamericanas Llarena Rosales
Magical Realism and the fantastic. Resolved versus unresolved antinomy. Chanady
Magic(al) Realism Bowers

ART ORIENTED REFS
Mysterious and magical realism anthology: contains such artists as Marisol, Matta, Romulo Maccio, Dali, Fernando Botero, Enrique Castro
Magic realism - Argentine Artists anthology: ed. Marucco
Six Artists, Six Friends anthology: ed. Cozzolino
El cuerpo en la mirada Benjamin Dominguez
Magic and other realism anthology: ed. Munce
American realists and magic realists anthology: ed. Miller and Barr Jr.
Magic realist painting techniques Rudy de Reyna
The fantastic art of Vienna anthology: ed. Comini


Non-Latin focused magic realism: will we assess this at all?
Magical realism in West African fiction. Seeing with a third eye. Cooper
Magical realism in contemporary Chicano fiction Walter
Magic realism ed. Hancock (an anthology of Canadian short fiction in the magic realism style.)

Articles 

   * Recognizing Van Eyck: Magical Realism in Landscape Painting
   * Katherine Crawford Luber
   * Philadelphia Museum of Art Bulletin, Vol. 91, No. 386/387, Recognizing Van Eyck (Spring, 1998), pp. 7-23
   * Published by: Philadelphia Museum of Art
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3795460

   * Magical Realism and Theatre of the Oppressed in Taiwan: Rectifying Unbalanced Realities with Chung Chiao's Assignment Theatre
   * Ron Smith
   * Asian Theatre Journal, Vol. 22, No. 1 (Spring, 2005), pp. 107-121
   * Published by: University of Hawai'i Press
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4137078

   * Magical Strategies: The Supplement of Realism
   * Scott Simpkins
   * Twentieth Century Literature, Vol. 34, No. 2 (Summer, 1988), pp. 140-154
   * Published by: Hofstra University
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/441074

   * Magical Realism in Spanish American Fiction
   * Angel Flores
   * Hispania, Vol. 38, No. 2 (May, 1955), pp. 187-192
   * Published by: American Association of Teachers of Spanish and Portuguese
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/335812

   * Magical Realism and the Legacy of German Idealism
   * Christopher Warnes
   * The Modern Language Review, Vol. 101, No. 2 (Apr., 2006), pp. 488-498
   * Published by: Modern Humanities Research Association
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20466796

   * Realismo Magico: True Realism with a Pinch of Magic
   * Lee A. Daniel
   * The South Central Bulletin, Vol. 42, No. 4, Studies by Members of SCMLA (Winter, 1982), pp. 129-130
   * Published by: The Johns Hopkins University Press on behalf of The South Central Modern Language Association
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3188273

   * Magical Realism: "Arme Miraculeuse" for the African Novel?
   * Lydie Moudileno
   * Research in African Literatures, Vol. 37, No. 1, Textual Ownership in Francophone African Writing (Spring, 2006), pp. 28-41
   * Published by: Indiana University Press
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3821116

   * The Dark Side of Magical Realism: Science, Oppression, and Apocalypse in One Hundred Years of Solitude
   * Brian Conniff
   * MFS Modern Fiction Studies, Vol. 36, No. 2 (1990), pp. 167-179

   * On Magic Realism in Film
   * Fredric Jameson
   * Critical Inquiry, Vol. 12, No. 2 (Winter, 1986), pp. 301-325
   * Published by: The University of Chicago Press
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1343476

   * Magic Realism: Defining the Indefinite
   * Jeffrey Wechsler
   * Art Journal, Vol. 45, No. 4, The Visionary Impulse: An American Tendency (Winter, 1985), pp. 293-298
   * Published by: College Art Association
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/776800

   * Realism without Magic
   * William H. Pritchard
   * The Hudson Review, Vol. 42, No. 3 (Autumn, 1989), pp. 484-492
   * Published by: The Hudson Review, Inc.
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3850828

   * Julio Cortazar quotes on normal and abnormal movements: Magical realism or reality?
   * M. Merello
   * Movement Disorders, Vol. 21, No. 8 (2006), pp. 1062-1065

   * Writing the Vanishing Real: Hyperreality and Magical Realism
   * Eugene L. Arva
   * Journal of Narrative Theory, Vol. 38, No. 1 (2008), pp. 60-85

   * Magical Realism
   * Ann Kim and Nancy Pearl
   * Library Journal, Vol. 128, No. 5 (2003), pp. 140-149

Larodge (talk) 08:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC) Additional notes/questions/commentaries on source list[reply]

Several of these articles probably won't be used, like the German idealism one and the Taiwan theatre of the oppressed one. It all depends though on how we decide to organize the page. If we want to put little sections on supersubcategories of magic realism, these specialized articles/books (on Africa for example) could be used. What do you think? C U Larodge (talk) 21:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good start! Ideally, Wikipedia's articles are global and inclusive, which means they would include discussions of magical realism throughout history and across the whole world. However, that project is enormous. :) Would it help to narrow your focus to "Magical realism in Latin American literature", since that seems to be the focus of your course (am I right about that)? Perhaps we could even create a subarticle on that topic. Awadewit (talk) 02:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Added to "shortlist of more specific refs" --Kayohk (talk) 06:34, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


== Found something else ==
I'm taking a creative writing course and, having just gotten an email about Wednesday's guest lecturer, I wiki'd him and his book Two Strand River is considered a classic piece of Canadian magic realism. The author is the head of UBC's crwr department: Keith Maillard. Maybe we should read this one... Larodge (talk) 22:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In addition

What about... "A Companion to Magical Realism." Hart, Stephen M., Ouyang, Wen-chin. (quite in-depth)

or

"Realismo mágico y lo real maravilloso : una cuestión de verosimilitud : espacio y actitud en cuatro novelas latinoamericanas" Llarena Rosales, Alicia. (focuses on 4 Latin American novels in realismo magico style)

Or we could use, as an example of magical realism lit. "Pedro Páramo." Rulfo, Juan.

PS thanks liz for the list! --Kayohk (talk) 00:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Re: everything said so far...

Alright guys, I guess what we should address is how broad we're going to be? How do we want to go about defining magic realism? I am looking up books in Irving right now and am finding plenty, many with a specific focus on the Americas. I figure we are mostly responsible for providing a clear, blanket definition of magic realism across the board... Thoughts?

Sorry for not getting back to you earlier (esp. Liz), for some reason I didn't check our actual group page but instead just checked my own talk page. --Medge88 (talk) 01:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

BOOKS •Hart, Stephen, and Wen-chin Ouyang. A Companion to Magical Realism. Tamesis Books, 2005. Print.

•Zamora, Lois, and Wendy Faris. Magical realism: Theory, History, Community. Duke Univ Pr, 1995. Print.

•Menton, Seymour. Historia verdadera del realismo mágico. Fondo De Cultura Economica USA, 1998. Print.


ARTICLES •Eugene L. Arva. "Writing the Vanishing Real: Hyperreality and Magical Realism." Journal of Narrative Theory 38.1 (2008): 60-85. Project MUSE. [Library name], [City], [State abbreviation]. 28 Dec. 2009 <http://muse.jhu.edu/>. ***

•Moudielno, Lydie. "Magical Realism "Arme miraculeuse" for the African Novel? ." Research on African Literatures 37.1 (2006): 28-41. Web. 19 Jan 2010.

•Brian Conniff. "The Dark Side of Magical Realism: Science, Oppression, and Apocalypse in One Hundred Years of Solitude." MFS Modern Fiction Studies 36.2 (1990): 167-179. Project MUSE. [Library name], [City], [State abbreviation]. 28 Dec. 2009 <http://muse.jhu.edu/>.

•Simpkins , Scott. "Magical Strategies: The Supplement of Realism." Twentieth Century Literature 34.2 (1988): 140-155. Web. 19 Jan 2010. ***

•Merello, M. "Julio Cortazar quotes on normal and abnormal movements: Magical realism or reality?." Movement Disorders 21.8 (2006): 1062-1065. Web. 19 Jan 2010. ****

•Kim, Ann, and Nancy Pearl. "Magical Realism." Library Journal 128.5 (2003): 140-149. Web. 19 Jan 2010.

•Kim, Ann, and Nancy Pearl. "Magical Realism." Library Journal 128.5 (2003): 140-149. Web. 19 Jan 2010.****


IN ART: •Wechsler, Jeffrey. "Magic Realism: Defining the Indefinite." Art Journal 45.4 (1985): 293-298. Web. 19 Jan 2010.

I have no idea why this hasn't posted on the page the last two times I've tried, so I apologize if you get it three times. These are the sources I've come up with. Let me know what you think. Do we have to turn in a hard copy as a group tomorrow of our long and short lists? Thanks, --Medge88 (talk) 02:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To organize

Everything on the page is suspect to revision. We need to read through it carefully and try to ascertain which parts are most necessary, which dispensable, which are non-existent. It seems to me that the page was last edited too...particularly. I feel a kind of 'essay on magic realism' vibe throughout. I don't really like how the list of references is so long and detailed, though that may be what we are required to do. I want to add a music section. The art section needs to be amplified.

My big question to all of us group members is how much should we delve into the works themselves? Is this a critical or a content-based page? I think jb mentioned somewhere/sometime that there is a page dedicated to works of magic realism, but as of yet I have not found it. When jb refers to books (vs articles) that we must collect, are those supposed to be fictional books? So far, I only have non-fictional everything.

I recommend to scour the discussion page which has now been ARCHIVED (towards top right of page). It is a fountain of tips/comments for how we're going to go about editing this page.

I'm at IK Barbsy right now and will try to take out a bunch of books pertaining to art and magic realism. Hopefully this works out.

Larodge (talk) 02:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

K...

By the end of tonight, probably around 10pm, I'm going to come back on here and compile a complete list of our references. I will skim my list down and hopefully y'allz (other than Medge!) can bulk yours up by then. We need to meet and look at all the books in question together to decide on things; virtual decision-making is extremely limited, IMO. Larodge (talk) 02:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts

I feel like currently the article doesn't really give a good description of WHAT magical realism is. It's sort of wishy-washy and vague. The article also just lists examples of works of magical realism in literature, art, and film but doesn't explain in depth why these works are categorized as magical realism.

Should we go into more depth on magical realism in film? Or take that part out and focus on music instead?

Another thought: Say we focus on lit., art and music, we could provide an example for each and describe it in-depth? Or should our main focus just be on defining magical realism? I guess this will dictate what sort of sources we keep in our short-list... --Kayohk (talk) 04:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about the wishy-washy. It's not a particularly good article, as the rating indicates. And regarding what works to do, I feel like there needs to be a balance between content and commentary...somehow. An article comprised entirely of commentary doesn't sound very appealing to me. Conversely, I don't have the time to read a couple of novels that highlight the style, plus critical essays. I think this is where organization amongst group members comes in, because the page should be balanced between these two types of content. Maybe one or two members can be responsible for reading fictional works and the rest critical? Or each member be assigned a split between the two? No se..
Personally, I like the idea of having sections on art, music and film; they're totally relevant! There's basically nothing there as it is, apart from very wordy stuff on visual art, so as long as we add good information from credible sources, I don't see any harm; it won't do anything but enrich the page, even if we only do a small bit on each segment. Obviously, we're in a lit class, so lit should be our main concern. --Larodge (talk) 07:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I definitely think we should meet as a group (in person!) to figure out how we're going to organize everything & split up the work/reading. And I'm totally in favour of including sections on art, music & film as well. Without it, it looks like the term can only be applied to literature, which is not the case. --Kayohk (talk) 07:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

& More...

In terms of literature, I think we should focus on Latin America. This will help us narrow down our sources. Any ideas on how we should go about creating our shortlist?--Kayohk (talk) 06:37, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I AGREE
I think this would be a wise decision: focus the page on Latin American roots. However, I think we should have a subsection on international spread of the style. Nothing big, but it needs to be there; otherwise Wiki magic realism only belongs to Latinos and it's far spread out of there by now. Agree/disagree? With regard to the ref lists, I'm going to list everything I've got with whatever everyone else has put on the page, then cut it down into a short list (only adjusting my sources). Ok? --Larodge (talk) 07:14, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


Possible Short list for Novels

I agree with including a brief subsection on international spread.

About the short list, sounds good! I wasn't sure what to do about the articles, but for books, I thought we should use:

Magical Realism. Theory, History, Community. Zamora and Faris Magic Realism. Social context and discourse. Angulo "A Companion to Magical Realism." Stephen Hart and Ouyang Wen-chin Catching Butterflies. Bringing magical realism to ground. Takolander (maybe?)

Will wait to see what you've got.--Kayohk (talk) 07:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Hey I'm just checking in to see where our progress is at... I agree that we should focus on magic realism in Latin America seeing that it is relevant to the class and it's a huge subject that can be looked at from many angles. Let me know if there's anything specific that I should do before class for tomorrow, and I'll try and check back, otherwise I'll see you then! --Medge88 (talk) 08:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RE: long list & making a short list

Thanks for compiling everything Liz. Personally, I think since we're only allowed a handful of novels, we should choose novels that focus on the concept of magical realism and in defining it. For our articles, we can be more specific and include ones that cover magical realism in different arenas (art, music, film) as well as different parts of the world. What do you all think? --Kayohk (talk) 07:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Short List

Here is the paraphrased version of the long list. If new sources need to be added, they should probably go here (probably will get checked more often than the long list). However they should be demarcated so they stand-out against the rest of the already agreed-on sources, so we know there's new material to assess. Right? :),.

Books
Magical Realism. Theory, History, Community. Zamora and Faris
Varieties of Magic Realism Zlotchew
Magic Realism. Social context and discourse. Angulo
Comentarios filologicos sobre el realismo magico Camacho Delgado (Spanish text: ok or no?)
Catching Butterflies. Bringing magical realism to ground. Takolander
A Companion to Magical Realism. Hart and Wen-chin
Historia verdadera del realismo mágico Menton
Realismo mágico y lo real maravilloso : una cuestión de verosimilitud : espacio y actitud en cuatro novelas latinoamericanas Llarena Rosales
Magic realism and Canadian literature anthology of stories AND critical essays
Magic(al) Realism Bowers

ART ORIENTED REFS
Mysterious and magical realism anthology: contains such artists as Marisol, Matta, Romulo Maccio, Dali, Fernando Botero, Enrique Castro
Magic realism - Argentine Artists anthology: ed. Marucco
Six Artists, Six Friends anthology: ed. Cozzolino
El cuerpo en la mirada Benjamin Dominguez
Magic and other realism anthology: ed. Munce
American realists and magic realists anthology: ed. Miller and Barr Jr.

(Last two on American artists but SUCH good sources!)



These texts are not immediately connected to Latin American magic realism. They may be used for a subarticle, but are not of utmost importance.
Magical realism in West African fiction. Seeing with a third eye. Cooper
Magical realism in contemporary Chicano fiction Walter
Uncertain Mirrors. Magical realisms in US ethnic literatures. Benito, Manzanas and Simal
Magic realism anthology of Can. short stories


Articles 

   * Magical Strategies: The Supplement of Realism
   * Scott Simpkins
   * Twentieth Century Literature, Vol. 34, No. 2 (Summer, 1988), pp. 140-154
   * Published by: Hofstra University
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/441074

   * Magical Realism in Spanish American Fiction
   * Angel Flores
   * Hispania, Vol. 38, No. 2 (May, 1955), pp. 187-192
   * Published by: American Association of Teachers of Spanish and Portuguese
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/335812

   * Realismo Magico: True Realism with a Pinch of Magic
   * Lee A. Daniel
   * The South Central Bulletin, Vol. 42, No. 4, Studies by Members of SCMLA (Winter, 1982), pp. 129-130
   * Published by: The Johns Hopkins University Press on behalf of The South Central Modern Language Association
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3188273

   * The Dark Side of Magical Realism: Science, Oppression, and Apocalypse in One Hundred Years of Solitude
   * Brian Conniff
   * MFS Modern Fiction Studies, Vol. 36, No. 2 (1990), pp. 167-179

   * On Magic Realism in Film
   * Fredric Jameson
   * Critical Inquiry, Vol. 12, No. 2 (Winter, 1986), pp. 301-325
   * Published by: The University of Chicago Press
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1343476

   * Magic Realism: Defining the Indefinite
   * Jeffrey Wechsler
   * Art Journal, Vol. 45, No. 4, The Visionary Impulse: An American Tendency (Winter, 1985), pp. 293-298
   * Published by: College Art Association
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/776800

   * Realism without Magic
   * William H. Pritchard
   * The Hudson Review, Vol. 42, No. 3 (Autumn, 1989), pp. 484-492
   * Published by: The Hudson Review, Inc.
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3850828

   * Julio Cortazar quotes on normal and abnormal movements: Magical realism or reality?
   * M. Merello
   * Movement Disorders, Vol. 21, No. 8 (2006), pp. 1062-1065

   * Writing the Vanishing Real: Hyperreality and Magical Realism
   * Eugene L. Arva
   * Journal of Narrative Theory, Vol. 38, No. 1 (2008), pp. 60-85

   * Magical Realism
   * Ann Kim and Nancy Pearl
   * Library Journal, Vol. 128, No. 5 (2003), pp. 140-149

   * Recognizing Van Eyck: Magical Realism in Landscape Painting
   * Katherine Crawford Luber
   * Philadelphia Museum of Art Bulletin, Vol. 91, No. 386/387, Recognizing Van Eyck (Spring, 1998), pp. 7-23
   * Published by: Philadelphia Museum of Art
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3795460



These texts are not immediately connected to Latin American magic realism. They may be used for a subarticle, but are not of utmost importance.

   * Magical Realism and Theatre of the Oppressed in Taiwan: Rectifying Unbalanced Realities with Chung Chiao's Assignment Theatre
   * Ron Smith
   * Asian Theatre Journal, Vol. 22, No. 1 (Spring, 2005), pp. 107-121
   * Published by: University of Hawai'i Press
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4137078

   * Magical Realism: "Arme Miraculeuse" for the African Novel?
   * Lydie Moudileno
   * Research in African Literatures, Vol. 37, No. 1, Textual Ownership in Francophone African Writing (Spring, 2006), pp. 28-41
   * Published by: Indiana University Press
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3821116

   * Magical Realism and the Legacy of German Idealism
   * Christopher Warnes
   * The Modern Language Review, Vol. 101, No. 2 (Apr., 2006), pp. 488-498
   * Published by: Modern Humanities Research Association
   * Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20466796

We have SO FAR decided to maintain interest in how magic realism plays a part in art, film and music. However we are open to comment/criticism on this decision, and welcome it. :) --Larodge (talk) 08:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Great! So, for our short list (2-4 novels, 6-24 articles) I propose we keep all the articles listed, and focus on the bolded novels. Let me know if you think I've left out a very vitally important novel to the topic of magical realism. If anyone has any other ideas, please throw them out there! --Kayohk (talk) 08:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh crap. I totally edited out your bolds, in a frenzy of neurotic editing. I'm so sorry! Can you remember which ones you picked out? I know they were at the top of the list... The thing is that the books aren't really novels; in fact they're mostly collections of articles or essays, rather. I haven't looked at them carefully enough to know which are more important/viable than which others (except the first: jb says so, so it's got to be ;)hehe). I want to look at them a bit more before throwing them off the list; this was just such a rushed compiling, I didn't really have the time for it earlier. Anyhow, I don't know if you looked after or before, but I added a bunch of books for the art section. If we're doing that, these'll be great. Sorry about the edit scrape: that was wicked, I'll try to stop doing that... --Larodge (talk) 08:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

No Problem! I've re-bolded them. I think it's okay if they're not really novels, as long as they're credible sources that cover the topic, IMO. But of course, if you feel something should be included instead, by all means! --Kayohk (talk) 16:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

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