Wikipedia talk:Spoiler

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Spoiler warning discussion at the Village Pump

Surprisingly, this notice hasn't been posted here. But there is a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) about the restoration of spoiler warnings on articles about fictional subjects. The discussion is located at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 55#SPOILER ALERT disclaimers. —Farix (t | c) 14:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Placement of spoilers

The current style guideline wording that article "wording carries spoiler warnings", such as "section headings (such as "Plot" or "Ending")" gives a placement guideline of placing spoilers below "Plot" or "Ending" headings, and not in other places, such as the Lead. This contradicts the next paragraph since it could interfere with with Wikipedia:Lead section. Should it be more formally stated where spoilers are to be placed such as "Plot" or "Ending" sections? SomeRandomFilmArticleEditor (talk) 21:49, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers should be allowed

I think spoiler warnings are a good idea, and I remember them

I would also propose these spoiler alerts to be clickable; when you click on it, it would take you just after the end of the spoiler so that the viewer could avoid seeing it.

98.221.181.197 (talk) 03:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

What is a spoiler? When does a spoiler stop spoiling? The term is too fuzzy and would lead to too many edit wars over plot details that it is easier to give everything and say caveat emptor. The word 'Plot' is clue as to what will be there. Darrenhusted (talk) 13:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

My. Don't we have a high opinion of ourselves

"Since it is generally expected that the subjects of our articles will be covered in detail. . . " So, we are to assume that everyone on the planet is so thoroughly familiar with this site that they just know we'll have spoilers in articles about films and such. Too many editors forget that we are not writing for other Wikieditors, but for the general public. --Nricardo (talk) 03:44, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

We are for those who wish to read an encyclopedia. If the 'general public' doesn't understand what that means, it's not our fault. If that makes us have 'a high opinion of ourselves' then so be it. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 05:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

They'll know it after they've been burned enough times. But it's not like we can or should omit spoilers: a film's ending, plot twist, or whatever can be pretty important, in terms of being able to talk about the film encyclopedically.

I do wish however we were more willing to structure our articles in a way that allowed us to serve both those who want a non-spoily introduction to a work before seeing it, and those who want every gory detail. I'm sure it would be possible for Wikipedia to serve both audiences well, but I've suggested doing as much in the past, it met with a fair amount of ideological resistance.--Father Goose (talk) 05:13, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with both the original author and Father Goose. Wikipedia is becoming ubiquitous as a reference and when someone would like to learn some new information. While the user recognizes that they are at their own discretion, professionals and esteemed scholars still check in with Wikipedia. A spoiler can be quite costly. Perhaps an excited person who just learned about something would like to learn about it. They may be always alert for spoilers. (i.e. I just read about Final Fantasy 13. I was interested in learning about the setting and the story set-up. I didn't realize that "Story" would have the ending in it.)

As for "Plot" or "Story" being enough, I don't think that is fair. I don't see what cost there is to adding one line, perhaps underlined or bolded, as a subtitle to "Plot" or "Story". It seems like an easy addition. Why the communal averseness? (Anonymous)171.66.82.53 (talk) 00:23, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have disclaimers. A "spoiler warning" is no different from any other disclaimer-type text. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 00:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

A valid and understandable point considering the fuzzy boundaries issue. Thank you. One more difficult question this leads me to is the way stories are written. In the article that prompted me to get into this issue, under the subsection "Story", it contains three paragraphs. The first two do seem to lend to any spoilers, but seem to develop some of the background. By this time, a reader could be invested in finishing this section. In the third and final paragraph, the beginning still has tinges of background and suddenly, in the final two sentences reveal the whole plot. Perhaps this is a dangerous form of writing? Thank you for your time. 171.66.82.53 (talk) 00:40, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Warning: This discussion of spoilers contains plot spoilers. Varlaam (talk) 18:22, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

What would any reader expect to read about under the heading "Plot"? How do you discuss an article such as The Empire Strikes Back without discussing the major plot twist of Darth Vader being Luke's father (though this twist applies less after Revenge of the Sith)? You make the assumption that editors are not readers, though it is true that reader may not be editors. I started editing because I was a frequent reader, and as far as fiction articles go the plot is the part that most readers are looking for. Film reviewers have to be coy and say "this film has a twist", we cannot be coy, and the reader will learn quickly that 'encyclopaedic' means 'everything is here'. Darrenhusted (talk) 13:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

It's one thing not being coy and another thing being a dick .And I've seen some editors placement of certain information about some books,films in certain places especially in edit summaries as examples of them showing they are dicks and being able to get away with it .Garda40 (talk) 15:56, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Similar to my agreement with Father Goose and the original poster, while I recognize that we not treating reader's like children, I'm advocating for a warning because people may be in a hurry, they may be only looking for the plot set-up or story set-up, or etc. Wikipedia's quite ubiquitous and spoiler's hurt and dampen excitement. To me, it doesn't seem like a costly addition. (Anonymous) 171.66.82.53 (talk) 00:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

See reply above to same general statement. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 00:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

• I personally don't see the problem with having plot sections divided into summary / details, or using show/hide boxes for plots, but on the other hand it really is silly to say, "I came to Wikipedia for information, and my complaint is that I got too much information". There's plenty of other sites that do spoiler-free reviews and summaries. - DustFormsWords (talk) 00:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Scope?

Were spoiler warnings abolished officially throughout all projects of WP, or just in English?

I just found this spoiler warning in French Wikipedia plain as day:
Ce qui suit dévoile des moments clés de l’intrigue.

Varlaam (talk) 18:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, it is an English Wikipedia policy. Each of the language policies have their own policies and guidelines that are often not in line with each other. Most do not have anywhere near the sourcing and verification requirements we have either. That said, according to fr:Wikipédia:Dévoile l'intrigue du récit (the French spoiler guideline) which states that spoiler warnings should be used and they have spoiler templates. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 18:22, 21 February 2010 (UTC)