Talk:2010 Labour Party leadership election (UK)

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Possible candidates

Can I add anyone I think might be a candidate? Or shall I wait until they announce their candidacy? No/ All the possible candidates should be removed and as people comment that they will stand then they should be added but not until. Off2riorob (talk) 19:58, 10 May 2010 (UTC) Off2riorob (talk) 19:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It has been reported on Sky that the Cabinet have agreed that no one will annouunce their intention to stand until after the discussion with the Liberal Democrats is over. Off2riorob (talk) 20:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Breaking news, Cleg says he did not ask Brown to stand down. Off2riorob (talk) 20:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Someone's added a list of candidates again. I agree we shouldn't include this information until candidates are formally announced. And, to be honest, most of them seem unlikely. I imaging it's going to be a race between Balls, David Milliband and Johnson, but we'll see. In the meantime, does anyone object to me removing it again? I'll leave it for now and wait for feedback. Thanks TheRetroGuy (talk) 12:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't add the list, but I've found references from national media claiming that the politicians listed are potential candidates (and removed those who haven't seen any speculation). It seems moderately useful to me and I'd prefer to retain it, although if nobody else agrees, I'm not that concerned. Warofdreams talk 14:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The list of possible candidates, was started again by an IP. It is valueless speculation. Adding possible names and removing them and adding joke names that some writer somewhere has added, it is just not what we are here to do. Keep any speculated names out of the article, there will be actual names in the next few days. Off2riorob (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

'Triggering'

I do not like this word 'triggering', even though it now has a cite for having been used in the media. Has an official process been initiated yet or not? Because that is what the word 'triggering' means to my mind. If not, then all that has happened is that he has said he will go, and an official process of a leadership election will begin at some point in the future. MickMacNee (talk) 22:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree I just saw a report that the National_Executive_Committee have said they will be meeting in the next few days and it is my understanding that they are the ones that actual announce the leadership election and actually it has not been triggered at all. Off2riorob (talk) 22:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, an election has been triggered by the announcement. The precise details of when nominations will open, when polling will take place etc., will be determined by the NEC, but there is no doubt that Brown's statement has triggered a leadership contest. The contest can't now be reverted. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 22:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See Timeline for the Labour Party (UK) leadership elections, 2007 for a similar chain of events. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion is were you come here and discuss, not were you come here are make some comment and then revert my edit. There is no mention of triggered there? It is correct that nothing official has actually happened, actually the article has been created previous to the actual situation existing, I agree with Mick, triggered is wrong. Off2riorob (talk) 23:00, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

perhaps I should have linked to Labour Party (UK) leadership election, 2007. Are you actually suggesting that a contest has not been triggered. Are you surmising that the NEC will refuse to accept his resignation? [1] also uses the word. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Would you prefer "precipitated", "started", "led to", "caused to get underway", "intitated", "set in motion", "led to", "actuated"? –– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Put very simply, how has a formal process begun, if there are no candidates, no election date, and (presumably), no formal resignation letter or date, of the incumbent? All we have, is an announcement it is to occur, at some vague point in the future. If that means 'triggerred', then so be it. It doesn't ring true with me. MickMacNee (talk) 23:39, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please state what term you would prefer for the start of the process? Or are you speculating that Brown has not stated that he is to resign, that he has not said "I therefore intend to ask the Labor Party to set in train the processes needed for its own leadership election," he continued. "I would hope that it would be completed in time for the new leader to be in post by the time of the Labor Party conference. I will play no part in that contest; I will back no individual candidate."[2] –– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind. I really can't be arsed with this. Unwatching. MickMacNee (talk) 23:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"I therefore intend to ask the Labor Party to set in train the processes needed for its own leadership election," ... intend to ask is the point in question. When he actually asks that will be the trigger, he intends to trigger, but has not done it yet. Off2riorob (talk) 14:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of entirely academic interest now. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 18:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Candidates and supporters

Given that this election will be unlike the 2007 election, I don't think it provides much of a guide on how to handle publicly declared Commons PLP supporters of each candidate. Theoretically, we could have 257 names listed either as candidates or supporters (assuming Brown really does stay in and really does stay out of the election). With Alan Johnson supporting David Miliband, it is only a matter of time before this becomes an issue, so I thought I'd bring it up now. If we do list them, do we also want to list Lords PLP supporters? -Rrius (talk) 08:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, Caroline Flint told the BBC she supports D Miliband as well. -Rrius (talk) 11:20, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For the record I support Caroline Flint. Off2riorob (talk) 13:34, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is no fantastic rush, just wait and allow the candidates to announce and add them and then see if there is any notable issues worthy of adding. Who denies they are standing is worthless this article is actually for the most part about the candidates and the candidacy, not the people that didn't. Off2riorob (talk) 13:36, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The main thrust of my question is whether we are for or against listing supporters. I'm not asking this because I have a strong urge to start listing people. Rather, it is inevitable that someone will add such a list, so I am looking to get a discussion going on whether that is a good idea. Why wait for what will certainly happen before thinking about this? -Rrius (talk) 13:46, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

IMO Perhaps as the situation unravels one or two issues may become notable, presently they are not. A list of who is reported as saying they support who is close to valueless, major issue only please. Off2riorob (talk) 13:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

When someone is verifiably reported by reliable sources to be standing, usually by their own open self declaration is the time to start a list. until then it is the usual mindless media speculation. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 13:51, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is it notable that Flint supports milliband? we will have a list of people that support each candidate and a list of people that don't support anyone and a list of conservatives that support whoever and a list of press people that support whowver. Where does it end? Off2riorob (talk) 13:55, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it is notable. She is a Commons member of the PLP. Something like 12.5% of Labour MPs are needed for nomination, and the Commons PLP (together with the Labour MEPs) are one-third of the electoral college. Beyond that, different MPs (especially former ministers like Flint) have a reputation for being part of one wing or another of the party or are associated with one candidate or another. I think it is beyond question that a list would be sufficiently newsworthy for inclusion. The main objection, it seems to me, would be the space 257 names would take up. -Rrius (talk) 14:05, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

With a lot of citations, unless someone in the end reports them all in a single cite. Perhaps wait till the result and then add only the supporters of the winner all the others seem to have little long term value imo.Off2riorob (talk) 14:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why should the frontrunner undeclared candidates (Miliband jnr, Balls, Cruddas) not be mentioned? They are the primary focus of the coverage in reliable sources, and this article is very deficient without their inclusion. 86.41.61.203 (talk) 23:08, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]