Talk:The Imperial March

since when is the imperial march public domain? there's no mentioning about the licensing of the ogg-file. may it be that it's in fact pirated?

Really, I'm surprised there's no talk of the theme not being completely original, it's obviously based off the traditional funeral march melody which I assume is by Chopin but I've never heard the movement in the context of the sonata.

For a while I thought that it was Williams's own Throne Room music from Episode IV that inspired him with the theme of the Imperial March. But the Chopin Funeral March connection is very interesting. If you have an album of Chopin's greatest hits (such as Naxos's), it might have the entire movement, (though most likely not the whole sonata), giving you a better idea of context. I will certainly be listening to that. Del arte 21:04, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Metallica "Cover"

I am certain Metallica never covered it. I have no idea where this cover comes from, except that sometimes it labeled (Rage Mix) which I assume led to the credit of Rage Against the Machine. I haven't heard the mp3 for years but I seem to remember it sounding rather synthy (in guitars and orchestra).

Where does this certainty come from? I certainly have a file that purports to be a Metallica cover of the Imperial March (and sounds much like the material on S&M, i.e. with orchestra), and there seem to be any number of internet references to it. The Rage Mix I have as well, and it is distinctly different. There does seem to be another supposed Metallica cover with Vader effects in the background, this is most likely by a cover band. But the orchestral version seems pretty professional. Christopher Parham (talk) 21:10, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

I never seen it mentioned in any sort of official context, or on a decent Metallica site. It's only on file sharing networks and people mentioning it in internet forum threads that I see it mentioned. Here is a seemingly exhaustive list of all the covers Metallica have done http://www.encycmet.com/cover/ including little riffs they did at shows and recorded rehersals, and the recording of The Imperial March with an orchestra would warrant an inclusion if they actually did it.

Cool, I'm convinced. Too bad I have no idea who that version is by though, because it kicks ass. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:20, 2005 May 26 (UTC)

It has been said that the Trans-Siberian Orchestra, which actually has electric guitars and not a metal band with it, are who really recorded the "Metallica" version. Other files say that Metallica and the Trans-Siberian Orchestra covered Carol of the Bells and other songs, so this seems to also point to this Orchestra covering the song.

The Imperial March is also used in the track Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale in Episode II, but I don't remember what was happening. Will someone please add that? Shrewdcat 00:52, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It plays here two times in the soundtrack. The first time corresponds to when the Stormtroopers are assembling and departing Coruscant. The second time is played at the very end, a hint of the IM is played along side Anakin's Theme and Across the Stars. This however does not actually appear at end credits of the movie. JayMan 03:22, 06 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Key

Can we verify the key of the given sheet music on the page? Given that I'm a pianist, and I don't know how to change the graphic... I have a few issues with the graphic as it is right now. The melody is fine, but I'm pretty sure the key is supposed to be F# minor (three sharps), not D major or B minor (two sharps, as current), given the current notes. The other thing my ear tells me is that the piece is actually supposed to be an entire semitone higher; so the key, consequently, should actually be G minor, and all the notes should be transposed up a semitone. Can I get some verification on this? Thanks. TheProject 23:12, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You have a good ear. My source for this, the 'consumer' piano sheet music for Episode II, has this music notated in E-flat major (three flats). I chose to make the graphic in D subconsciously thinking that this somehow reduced the possibility of legal problems. But now that I think more on it, we can claim "fair use" as long as the excerpt is short and not a photocopy of the sheet music. Del arte 23:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This theme occurs like a hundred times in Episode V. I may not have perfect pitch, but I'm pretty sure it's played in a few different keys. Otherwise, it would be monotonous, literally! Anton Mravcek 18:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm surprised it's in E-flat major/C minor, as it begins and ends on G (minor), but like I said, I haven't seen the original score. However, when I talk about the "theme", I'm talking about the main Vader theme: the theme that plays when he shows up. The theme may be transposed etc. as a musical developmental trick to give it a different feel or mood, or to expand an idea, but I would be really surprised if the original Vader theme came back in a different key. TheProject 19:21, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Stating themes in different keys is more than a developmental trick, it's a necessity. But as far as Wikipedia is concerned, themes should be quoted in a key in which they first or most often appear. If this particular theme is never stated as given in my illustration, then the key of the illustration needs to be changed to one that is. Del arte 22:59, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Maybe it's in a modal key. If that were the case, then it would be in G phrygian, which would explain why it start/ends on g, and has a 3-flat key signature. Just speculation. Xunflash 03:38, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The concert suite version of the Imperial march is in G minor (either natural or melodic), with frequent accidentals. It occurs in other keys at various points in the saga. The member who posted this image of the written music was most likely trying to convey the relationships between the notes in the melody, nothing more. It's okay that it's not in the "right" key because there is no right key for the Imperial March. Although I must say, I'm partial to both the G minor of the suite and the Ab minor that can be heard as counterpoint to the funeral music at the end of ROTS. Datameister 06:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

For what its worth, Musipedia.org uses G minor.

I have perfect pitch, its home key is definately G minor. Whether or not it is modal, which is possible, if we notated it in G minor, it would be a start. It should therefore have two flats, unless someone can say that it is definately in a particular mode, in which case, they would need to show what mode it was, and sheet music with that mode. Artvandelay 16:24, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Inspiration

It is said in the article, that the IM is based upon the Chopin's Piano Sonata No. 2 in B minor but to me it sounds much more like "Mars, the Bringer of War" by Gustav Holst (The Planets). I've borrowed a Chopin's CD from the library and couldn't figure any similarities with the IM. Can anyone explain me this (especially the similarity with "Mars")? --Koveras 19:10, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The resemblance to "Mars" is mostly superficial, in my opinion. Yes, both pieces involve a lot of heavy brass with percussive ostinatos, and they both symbolize war. But they use different meters, different chord progressions, and significantly different melodies. The Imperial March has a much longer, more developed melody, while "Mars" relies on a relentless yet simple melody. I haven't heard the piano sonata and therefore currently have no opinion about it. Datameister 06:28, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The similarities with Chopin's Op. 35 are without a doubt coincidental as well. The only real similarity I can spot is the rhythm, and that can be explained by the fact that they're both marches. Without a source stating explicitly that this was inspired by Chopin's march, claiming that there's any relation between the two is quite bold, and I'm therefore removing that claim from this page and Piano Sonata No. 2 in B flat Minor (Chopin). EldKatt (Talk) 20:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

d minor in Chapter 16 of TESB when DV first appears

and the notation example (supposed to be b minor) is full of enharmonic (maybe some audio-to-MIDI program?) mistakes.

Others have complained about the notation example not being in the right key, but you're the first to complain about "enharmonic mistakes". As I've already said, the music was notated with three-flat key signature in the Episode II sheet music and I arbitrarily transposed it to two sharps. I have no problem with someone changing the notation example to match, say, the very first appearance of the theme. Del arte 23:38, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Appearance In A New Hope Special Edition?

In what scenes in the special edition of A New Hope does the Imperial March appear? JayMan 03:16, 06 February 2006 (UTC)