Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Scroll

The Scroll

Delete-Non notable middle school paper PlasmaDragon

Delete- I go to the school right now, and the paper is not notable. Please notice that our school IP address is the one that has made all of these edits related to the school newspaper. Its probably some kid from the school paper self advertising. It's fine enough just to keep the content we have in American School in London and forget about The Scroll.--Urthogie 22:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree; the Scroll is a notable middle school newspaper, as it wins awards and the editing staff are generally invited to a journalistic conference because of their hard work. Saying that someone on the paper is self advertising is absurd: it is a free newspaper given out to all ASL middle schoolers. I don't know what kind of personal vendetta you have against the scroll, but there is no need for you to do this. The Scroll wikipedia entry is not violating any wiki or school rules, and therefore your arguments are not valid. (Nakan) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.37.20 (talk • contribs)

• • Seeing as how it has a very small circulation among only a few hundred people at one school, it is completely non notable for anyone who doesn't already know about it (i.e. who doesn't go to the school). Rules are irrelevant here: notability is. Therefore, my arguments are valid.-PlasmaDragon 17:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
  • except that the scroll also gets given to other newspapers in the US in exchange for theres. if the other newspaper staff wants to know more, they can come here.(David)

"KEEP IT" What on earth do you have against the scroll!?! The Scroll is a notable paper and scored first class in a recent rating. it also won best of show for middle school newspapers during an NSPA confrence. I agree with the above when it says that " Saying that someone on the paper is self advertising is absurd: it is a free newspaper given out to all ASL middle schoolers." He has a perfect point; why on earth would a FREE newspaper that contains NO advertisments and sole purpose is to inform the population of the american school about goings on, want to advertise. The Scroll is a fabulous example of students trying (and succeding) to be heard in their community. scroll editors spend at least 2 hours a week working on the paper plus many of their weekends trying to put out the best paper they can. if you think that the paper is "bad" then take it up with the editors, but keep this page open to all that want to read about it. When you say "some kid" you are talking about 14 students selected out of 400 to represent their fellow students and voice issue concerning them. Please, at least treat the editors with some respect. (David)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.46.9 (talk • contribs)

• • This isn't about the quality of the paper, or what we think about the editors. I just respectfully think that this newspaper is not worthy of an encyclopedia article. And I think that when Urthogie said "self-advertising", he meant "vanity." Vanity pages are prohibited on wikipedia, by policy. Ergo, this article, which is in violation of policy, should be deleted.-PlasmaDragon 17:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• • Yeah, I don't think the paper would advertise, but some editor would, just to feel special. Vanity.--Urthogie 18:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

P.S. What is the NSPA? I couldn't find an article for it here. If the organization that gave the prize isn't notable enough for one, the paper who uses that prize as its sole reason for notability is not either.-PlasmaDragon 17:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• • http://www.studentpress.org/nspa/ Visit this for information on the NSPA. It is the largest student press orgainization in the US. I agree that if The Scroll isn't notable enough to have its own page, it should be included on the school page. Oh, and I can't figure out how to take the irrelivent notice off of the top of the page, but it should. This is not a page for slamming people. (Alex)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.249.71.9 (talk • contribs)

Merge - not notable. merge into main entry for the school. -- infinity0 18:02, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

We cannot; one of you have already deleted all mention of the Scroll on the American School in London page. There are other Middle School newspapers on this website; maybe you should target them instead of us. Or perhaps, you should just grow up and stop acting like an eight year old. (Nakan).

It'd be much easier to target them if personal attacks and baseless accusations weren't made everytime we voted someones vanity page for deletion. Also, please note that this IP that just posted is from the American school in london. It's incredibly immature to go creating vanity pages just to see yourself on an article.--Urthogie 10:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, dear sir, but direct me to the place where it says my name in glorious letters on the Scroll wikipedia page? This is about the Scroll itself. A concious decision was made when the page was made; we didn't use any names because we thought than we might avoid the accusation that you are making right now. This is not an attempt to make us feel better, but to inform other people from other schools about the Scroll. Wikipedia is supposed to be the ultimate encyclopedia, where every term can be defined. The Scroll is just as worthy to hold a single page of explanation as any other newspaper. There are some pages on Wikipedia which take up a lot more room and serve a lot less purpose than this one. Perhaps you should dedicate your noble efforts to those sites more worthy of your exaulted attention. (Nakan)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.85.24.83 (talk • contribs)

You said it perfeclty. This is an encyclopedia. Key word, encyclopedia. And some things aren't notable.--Urthogie 15:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I was not aware I could say something perfeclty. Look, if this is some sort of vendetta against all middle school and high school newspapers, then I could accept it. But its not; for some reason you have singled out your own middle school newspaper for abuse. Why don't you go after the Trojan Times? They are a middle school newspaper. They have virtually the same layout as us. Go and flag them for deletion, just let us have our few kilobytes of space.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.37.20 (talk • contribs)

• To add to the above's point, the Trojan Times is much more of a vanity page than the Scroll's. The site clearly says,"Pierce Middle School's "Trojan Times" is widely regarded as one of – if not the – best middle school newspaper in the United States." The Scroll page doesn't have opinionated comments such as the one above. I believe that the page is enlightening other Middle School papers to that fact that there is a MS paper in the American School in London. I don't think it was a vanity page at all. I don't believe that it was created for this reason. I appreciate your opinions, Urthogie, but your points aren't convincing me. I didn't see anything on the Scroll page that caused me to believe what you said. (Alex)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.70.202 (talk • contribs)

I am not just picking on the Scroll; if I see another non notable middle school paper, I will recommend it for deletion, but yours is the only one I have chanced upon. If I see a page that "take[s] up a lot more room and serve[s] a lot less purpose than this one" I shall recommend it for deletion as well. You are welcome to go ahead an recommend the pages you refer to for deletion (you might want to register an account first). However, the fact that there are worse articles does not mean that this one is automatically considered of sufficient notability for wikipedia. The page itself does not provide much information that cannot be determined just by looking at a copy of the paper (e.g. the contents and sections of the paper) nor any information that would interest people who have not read a copy. This is because, and I mean no offense, the Scroll is pretty much an average middle school paper. It has interviewed a few moderately famous people, and has won a minor award, but on the whole it is not very distinguished from any of the other tens of thousands of middle school papers out there. It has not been the topic of any sort of news that extends beyond the school, nor does its readership extend beyond the school (and perhaps a few people in the schools that you send a copy of your paper to). Beyond the few people that already know about your paper, nobody cares about it. Sorry. It's a bit harsh, but it's a bit true. Nobody cares. Your paper is not famous or unusual enough to warrant an article on wikipedia. If you want other schools to have a place online where they can learn more about the Scroll, I recommend setting up a website or something and printing the URL in the paper. But wikipedia is not a place for your webpage and is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so it is not the place for this kind of thing. And if you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with the rules, policies and community of wikipedia itself.-PlasmaDragon 18:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

• PlasmaDragon, you've given a really good argument. Go ahead and delete the page, because no matter what we do, the Scroll (and I say this in the most respectful way I can) isn't important enough to be in this online encyclopedia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.70.202 (talk • contribs)

Well, good sir plasmadragon (nice name, by the way, extraordinarily manly), you have outdone yourself once again. In suggesting that this is the first middle school paper that you "chanced" upon, also serves to suggest that you did not attempt to merely look through wiki's search engine. The first item that you find when searching "middle school newspaper" is "the trojan times," which is nearly identical to the page that the Scroll has set up. Why don't you go and flag their site for deletion, and dash their humble dreams upon the rocks? You claim that the Scroll is a "average middle school newspaper," which has won "a minor award." Well, that really depends on your definition of minor. My definition of minor is something that is not important; perhaps something that no-one notices. Well, it would be difficult for someone not to notice the Scroll if it was announced in front of 60,000 people who all heard about it win this "minor" award (an award you obviously know nothing about, and you merely assume that it a minor one). You are correct in claiming that what you wrote is a "bit true," but incorrect in claiming that no-one cares. Four hundred people, plus 200 faculty members all care. The award board who gave us our "minor" award cares. The dozens of schools we have sent the Scroll to all care. No sir, you are not picking an argument with the Scroll, but rather with all middle school newspapers; you are suggesting that even a newspaper that wins one of the most prestigious awards available to it is still worthless, minor, and not even deserving of a wikipedia entry, is suggesting that no middle school newspapers amount to anything. You see, sir, all middle school newspapers have the same limits; they do not really reach a large audience past their schools, none of them are particularly famous or unusual, and as you say, they have no worth. Indeed, while I might have a problem with Wikipedia itself, than you, dear sir, have a problem with all middle school newspapers, not just this one. And if that is a battle you are willing to take, than good luck to you, sir. (Nakan)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.37.20 (talk • contribs)

being smug won't win you any support. I suggest you nominate the trojan times for deletion if you don't like it existing.--Urthogie 21:15, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I have listed Trojan Times for deletion too. I hope that makes you happy. As for a "minor" award, well, it's not exactly the Pulitzer, now is it? In front of 60,000 people? Was it given to you in a stadium? Anyway, since the article about the scroll claims a circulation of 1,000, but you say that only 600 people "care", I must confess that I regard any numbers you give me with suspicion. Oh, and 600/6,000,000,000 (the number of people who care divided by the population of the earth) = 0.0000001. So, on a global scale (this is, after all, the world wide web), virtually nobody cares. And yes, I have a problem with all middle school papers, and it is a battle that I am "willing to take." I daresay I am not alone.-PlasmaDragon 21:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

• Merge in school article as above. Non-notable on it's own, meatpuppet supported. --InShaneee 21:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
• Merge as per above. Chairman S. ^Talk 22:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

But this does not end at the merger. There was a mention of the Scroll on the American School in London page, but it was deleted, by one of the posters above. The Scroll received the award in front of 60,000 people, all of whom were invited for their contribution to the school newspaper community. And your little division problem hardly strikes fear into my heart; seeing as only a billion or so have internet acess, your division problem works against you; the most any internet site can garner is 1/6 of the world population. You claim that the award that the Scroll wins (most every year), is "not the pulitzer." Well, of course it isn't. The Scroll cannot win a pulitzer, because that prize is not available to them. However, the Scroll can compete against schools from other continents in an attempt to win the prize that you are slamming. You obviously have not done very much research on the very thing that you say does not matter. And saying that no-one cares is incorrect; apparently you care quite a lot, otherwise maybe you wouldn't continue in this persecution of your own school newspaper. You might be claiming that the Scroll, and other pages like it are wasting space on the Wiki server; perhaps you don't realize that this page that you have created takes up at least double the space that our small, supposedly insignifigant page takes up. At the beginning of this argument, you claimed that you "chanced upon" this page. I find this highly unlikely; we put this page up nary a week ago, and you flagged it for deletion less than two days afterwords. Someone told you about this page, and you took as an oppurtunity to continue your personal vendetta against the Scroll. The Scroll is as notable as a Middle School newspaper can be, and maybe you should just accept that and stop whining about Middle School newspapers. Just allow the few of MS newspapers that are trying to expand into the internet to do so, instead of hindering them at every step. (Nakan)

Listen, Nakan (assuming thats your name). Lemme make the following clear:

1. Whoever removed the text from the article was in error. It would be restored(without the link) if/when this article is deleted.
2. Yes, this discussion has taken more time than the making of The Scroll, unfortunately. However, if you think of it in the larger context, this sets a precedent and makes it easier to delete other non-notables in the future.

Peace, --Urthogie 14:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Urthogie, do not try and make out as if the removal of the text from the American School in London page was an error; you were the one who deleted it. And why do you have any doubts about what my name is? You could look me up in the directories right now, if you so desired (assuming you go to my school, which I think is very possible, Mr. Greenberg). I think that my arguements above speak for themselves, and if you have any desire to dislodge them you must give proof that the Scroll is non-notable. As I said above, the Scroll is as notable as it could possibly be; it cannot go beyond where it currently is. Just let us be, for the love of God; this is your school as well, have a little spirit. (Nakan)