Talk:Wilhelm II

The beginning of Kaiser William II's reign was quite fascinating. In May 1889 there was a widespread strike in the Ruhr. Chancellor Otto von Bismarck wanted to use the army to disband the strikers and force them to return to work. At first the Kaiser agreed with these measures, but then he recognized that the workers had valid grievances and decided that major labor reforms had to be implemented. The following passages and translations are from: 1. Emil Ludwig, Wilhelm der Zweite, Ernst Rowohlt Verlag, Berlin (1926). 2. Emil Ludwig, Wilhelm Hohenzollern, G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York (1927) [translated by Ethel Colburn Mayne].

"Dem war es bald zum erstenmal möglich, nach seinen humanen Grundsätzen zu handeln: über 100000 Ruhrarbeiter traten im Mai 89 in den Lohnstreik. Jetzt kommt sein grosser Augenblick. Als Bismarck eben im Kabinett verschärfte Ausnahmegesetze vorschlägt, erscheint unangemeldet und plötzlich der Kaiser als Husar, in schneidigem Ton erklärt er: 'Unternehmer und Aktionäre müssen nachgeben, die Arbeiter sind meine Untertaten, für die ich zu sorgen habe. Gestern habe ich den Oberpräsidenten am Rheine gewarnt: wenn die Industrie nicht sofort die Löhne erhöht, so ziehe ich meine Tuppen zurück. Wenn dann die Villen der reichen Besitzer und Directoren in Brand gesteckt und ihre Gärten zertreten werden, so werden sie schon klein werden.'" [1, pp 85-86]

"He was soon to have his first opportunity of acting upon his humanitarian principles. Over a hundred thousand miners in the Ruhr came out on strike for higher wages. In the moment when Bismarck was laying before the Cabinet some strong emergency measures, there appeared, suddenly and unannounced, the Emperor in Hussar uniform and blustering mood proclaiming: 'The directors and shareholders must give in; the men are my subjects for whom I am responsible. Yesterday I warned the Chairman of the Committees in the Rhineland, telling them that if the industry doe not at once grant an increase in wages, I shall withdraw my troops. Then, if the owners and directors have their villas burnt down and their gardens trampled on, they will sing a little smarter!'" [2, pp 81-82]

In January 1890, the Kaiser decided to convene a Labor Conference.

" ... Zwei Vorlagen, von denen eine eigenhändig, werden von Bötticher verlesen. [...] Arbeiterschutz, Sonntagsruhe, keine Kinderarbeit: lauter verständige Dinge. Nach der Verlesung spricht der Kaiser: 'Die Arbeitgeber haben die Arbeiter ausgepresst wie Zitronen und sie dann auf dem Miste verfaulen lassen. so ist im Arbeiter der Gedanke entstanden, er ist nichtnur Maschine, er will am Gewinn beteiligt werden, den er erzeugt hat, Sein Verhältnis zum Arbeitgeber muss aber ein kollegiales werden. Die Streiks beweisen, dass zwischen beiden Parteien jede Fühlung fehlt, darum wächst die Sozialdemokratie. Das Körnchen Wahrheit, das in ihrer Lehre steckt, wird schwinden, die Anarchisten werden die Führung bekommen. Wie eine Kompanie verludert, um die sich der Hauptmann nicht kümmert, so auch in der Industrie. Beim nächsten Streik werden die Arbeiter noch organisierter und verhetzter sein, dann giebt es Aufstände, und wir müssen schiessen.

"'Es wäre aber furchtbar, wenn ich den Anfang meiner Regierung mit dem Blute meiner Untertaten färben müsste. Wer es redlich mit mir meint, muss alles aufbieten, um colches Unglück zu verhüten. Ich will der roi des gueux sein! Meine Untertaten müssen wissen, dass sich ihr König um ihr Wohl bekümmert! ... Der internationalen Sozialdemokratie muss man eine internationale Ubereinkunft entgegensetzen. Die Schweiz ist damit gescheitert. Beruft aber der Deutche Kaiser eine solche Konferenz, dann ist das eine andre Sache. ... Darum habe ich in zwei Nächten diese Entwürfe verfasst. Auf Grund derselben wünsche ich Vorlage eines in begeisterter Sprache gehaltenen Erlassen, um ihn übermorgen, zu meinem Geburtstage, zu veröffentlichen.'" [1, pp 94-95]

" ... Two proposals, of which one is written by the Emperor's own hand, are read aloud by Bötticher. [...] Protection of the working-man, no work on Sundays, no child labor: mere common sense. After the reading the Emperor speaks: 'The employers have sqeezed the men like lemons, and then let them rot in the dung-heaps. And so the working-man has come to reflect that he is not a mere machine, and claims his share in the profits created by him. But his relation to the employer must be that of a colleague. These strikes are proof that there is no sympathy whatever between the two parties; hence the increase in Social-Democracy. The modicum of truth that underlies that teaching will be forgotten, and the anarchists will gain the upper hand. Just as a regimental company goes to pieces if the captain takes no interest in it, so it is with industry, In the next strike the men will be better organized and more exacerbated; then there will be risings, which we shall be obliged to shoot down.

"'But it would be terrible if I had to stain the first years of my reign with the blood of my subjects. Everyone who means well by me will do his outmost to avert such a catastrophe. I intend to be le roi des gueux! My subjects shall know that their King is concerned for their welfare. ... We must oppose International Social-Democracy with an international compact. Switzerland did not succeed in that. But if the German Emperor convokes a similar conference it will be quite a different affair. ... And so I have spent two nights in framing these proposals. I propose to have drafts, based upon these, of an edict worded in a spirit of warm goodwill, so that I may promulgate it on the day after to-morrow, which will be my birthday.'" [2, pp 91-92]

In March 1890 the Labor Conference convened in Berlin, and the Kaiser gave the opening address. Many of his proposals were incorporated in the Workers Protection Acts of 1891 (Arbeiterschutzgesetze).

Although Bismarck had sponsored social security legislation, by 1889-90 he had become disillusioned with the attitude of workers. In particular, he was opposed to wage increases, improving working conditions, and regulating labor relations. Moreover the Kartell, the shifting political coalition that Bismarck had been able to forge since 1867, had lost a working majority in the Reichstag. Bismarck also attempted to sabotage the Labor Conference that the Kaiser was organizing.

It has been alleged that Bismarck was organizing a military coup that would disband the strikers, dissolve the Reichstag, repeal the universal suffrage law, introduce limited suffrage, reduce the Kaiser to a puppet, and establish a military dictatorship.

In the late 1970s PBS broadcast the BBC series "Fall of Eagles," which covered the period 1848-1918 and traced the downfall of the Romanov, Hapsburg and Hohenzollern dynasties. This series jolted me to overcome my superficial knowledge about this critical period of history.

"The Fall of Eagles," written by C. L. Sulzberger (Crown, 1977) accompanied this series and contains an interview with Louis Ferdinand, a grandson of the Kaiser. On page 391, Louis Ferdinand says:

"Had Bismarck stayed he would not have helped. He already wanted to abolish all the reforms that had been introduced. He was aspiring to establish a kind of shogunate and hoped to treat our family in the same way the Japanese shoguns treated the Japanese emperors isolated in Kyoto. My grandfather had no other choice but to dismiss him."

[User: Domenico Rosa, 6 April 2006]

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Joachim was married to  U. P. Urass on March 11 1916 in Berlin
They had on child HRH Karl Franz Joseph Wilhelm fredrich Eduard Paul Prince of Prussia.

Prince Joachim died of a self-inflicted gunshot on July 18th 1920

DLC

I'm seeking some information that readers of this page might know. I am looking for information of Prince Joachim Von Hohenzollern, son of Kaiser Wilhelm II. Joachim was discussed as a possible 'king of Ireland' by Padraig Pearse and the leaders of Ireland's Easter Rising in 1916. Am I correct is thinking that Prince Joachim was married in 1916 and died in 1920? All info greatly received. JTD

==

"Frederick Wilhelm Viktor Albert of Hohenzollern" seems to be a strange mixture of English and German:
"Frederick William Victor Albert of Hohenzollern" (English);
"Friedrich Wilhelm Viktor Albert von Hohenzollern" (German).
S.

You say Wilhelm's mother was the sister of the wife of Tsar Nicholas II. But as Wilhelm's mother was the daughter of Queen Victoria, that would make Nicholas II's wife the daughter of Queen Victoria too. But she wasn't, was she?

==

Let's straighten this out. Wilhelm II's mother was Victoria of Great Britain, ie Queen Victoria's eldest child. Alexandra's mother was Princess Alice of Great Britain. Alice was the second daughter of Queen Victoria. A diagram to illustrate this shows the following:

                          VICTORIA
                             |
                   --------------------------
                   |                         |
                  Victoria                 Alice
                   |                         |
                  WILHELM II               Alix (Alexandra) = NICHOLAS II

As can be seen, Alexandra and Wilhelm were first cousins, and they were both grandchildren of Queen Victoria.

=

Indeed. Let's jump right in and fix that. The Hohenzollern is at least non-macaronic now, though I think we could make it clear that it's a house name and not a surname... but one thing at a time. -- Someone else 07:23 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)

Of course its a surname - Wilhem II was Wilhelm von Hohenzollern just as Nicholas II was Nicholas Romanov

They are back-formations from the name of House or Dynasty. In general monarchs do not use surnames. Nicholas was no more Nicholas Romanov than Victoria was Victoria Guelph. -- Someone else

Well when they were monarchs thats true but after they lost their thrones they used their family names again

They may not use surnames, but they have them. For example, the Royal Family's name in the United Kingdom is Windsor, but the surname is Windsor-Mountbatten (or perhaps Mountbatten-Windsor, I forget which order!). JTD

It's not so much that you forget: the ordiniance which dictates surnames for those of "Her Majesties" descendants "that require one" was poorly drafted. Those who require one seem to be those without either a princedom or a dukedom. and they are sparse on the ground. But the law is silent on what the surname of those who don't require them night be<G>! -- - Someone else 06:53 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)

One might note that the unidentified commenter who claimed that "after they lost their thrones they used their famiy names again" is simply untrue. The Royal House of Prussia, for instance, uses the surname "Prinz von Preussen" (that is to say, Prince of Prussia), and the current head of the house is Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen, not "Georg Friedrich von Hohenzollern". john 00:31 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

Good work and 100 per cent accurate. Eireman.

Could someone clarify how he can be "Prince of Prussia" when Prussia as an entity was legally abolished in 1947?

PMelvilleAustin 11:03 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

The Hohenzollern still carry that title. It is part of their legal surnames, which has not been affected by the abolition of Prussia as a state. See, for example, [1] about Königliche Hoheit Prinz Georg Friedrich Ferdinand von Preußen, which appears to be the full name of the current boss of the Hohenzollern family. They cannot call themselves "King" anymore, but the Königliche Hoheit (Royal Highness) appears to be part of the name as well (I'd have to do more research of that). Now, how this guy signs a cheque when doing his groceries is another question. Djmutex 11:21 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

Update: This is really a legal question, so I looked it up in Palandt, Kommentar zum Bürgerlichen Gesetzbuch (German Civil Code, 61. ed. 2002). And it's a complex issue, unfortunately. Name particles of nobility are, according to Article 109 subsection 3 of the 1919 constitution of the Weimar Republic, part of the legal surname. This article's validity has been prolongued until today, but the reasons are still unclear to me (it is not listed in Article 140 Grundgesetz at least). Anyway, it appears that anyone carrying a noble title at the time the Weimar constitution came into effect can still carry that title today. Djmutex 11:36 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

Should the rumoured jealousy between The Kaiser and his uncle (Edward) be mentioned, along with the fact that he was by direct descent of the ELDEST of 9 Victoria's children? The bizarre anatogonist behaviour displayed by the Kaiser during the Dreadnought race and the diplomatic twisting before WW1 need to be emphasised more. (27 Nov 2004)

Anti Nazi?

Improbable as it seems, the article appears to paint an anti Nazi picture of the Kaiser. Is this accurate? -Litefantastic 23:56, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

He was certainly not pro-Nazi. I'd need to look at the article again to see if the impression it gives is accurate, though. john k 02:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The 'Nazi' part of the Trivia section should be edited. Wilhelm's concept of rule was founded on romantic Medieval ideas and he believed that monarchy was installed by the grace of God - it's safe to say he despised all kinds of 'revolutionary' and 'socialist' political movements. Like many other Interbellum conservatives and members of the German nobility, he hated the Nazis' rude behaviour and appearance.

For example, shortly after the Nazis seized power, Göring was sent to see Wilhelm in order to try to talk him into becoming the Nazis' figure-head. They argued a couple of hours and Wilhelm called Göring a fool in his diary.

The paragraph 'Would Wilhelm have been in opposition to the Holocaust if he had lived to witness it?' is pointless in my opinion. 141.53.194.251 14:11, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Read it carefully. It never said that Wilhelm admired the Nazis or their ways. He only expressed his (grudging) respect at the fact that Hitler managed to do what the German Imperial Army couldn't do in the first war.

Heir

Who is the current head of the Hohenzollern house?

The current head of the House of Hohenzollern is HRH Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia. He is the son of Prince Louis Ferdinand II of Prussia; Prince Louis Ferdinand II of Prussia is the son of Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, who was the son of Kaiser Wilhelm II of Prussia. Hope that helps.Prsgoddess187 17:21, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wilhelm & Willam

Shouldn't it also mention his English name? any thoughts? Dudtz 7/30/05 2:36 PM EST

No. He was also called Wilhelm in English. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 18:45, 30 July 2005 (UTC) [reply]

He is often called William in English, so the name should at least be mentioned. 192.87.152.234 09:50, 3 August 2005 (UTC) [reply]

Why? People know Wilhelm is German for William. What is the point of stating the bleeding obvious. It is like saying a satellite circles the earth (which is round). We don't have to state the patiently obvious. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 17:05, 3 August 2005 (UTC) [reply]

In English, he is often called William, as the anon notes. I see no reason not to mention it. john k 21:19, 3 August 2005 (UTC) [reply]

Or more often, "Bill"! Deb 22:31, 4 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There, edited the german name, as Albert is "albrect" in german. Also added the full english, as just an interesting tidbit of info. -Alex 12.220.157.93 11:04, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Eulenburg scandal

Has anyone seen a clear citation that Wilhelm was bisexual, as talked on basis of e.g Eulenburg affair. Arrigo 13:15, 4 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've never seen anything beyond extremely loose speculation. john k 15:14, 4 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Removed paragraph

I have removed the following paragraph in the WWI section:

It is not unfair to call it the Kaiser's war. He was the leader, and appointed all the people, who caused the war, And he supported the moves to war, and wanted Germany top be the lead power. Sayibng he is not responsibkle, is like saying Stalin was not responsible for some Gulag executions, as he sometimes probabaly regretted what some of his people, did.

It is POV, polemic, and neither its content nor style conform to a minimum encyclopedic standard. ASav

Stuttgart

"Wilhelm had his summer palace in Stuttgart. When in residence, he held a parade every Sunday at noon. In full military dress and on a white steed, the Kaiser and his cavalry marched up and down the main street; the townsfolk were "encouraged" to attend. " Does somebody know where in Stuttgart he used to reside? For me, as a resident of Stuttgart, it would be quite interesting to know. --Malbi 13:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not too sure, but my guess would be the palace was the Neues Schloss and the street was Konigstrasse? Craigy

(talk) 21:20, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Franco-Prussian War

Someone more astute than I should write a paragraph about Wilhelm's military experience. As I recall, he was head of the Prussian 3nd Army in the Franco-Prussian War and had a similar command in the Prussian-Austrian War of 1866. I'm reading Wawro's book on the subject right now, but I don't think I could marshall too many facts other than that basic one.

im sorry to rain on your parade, but there is no way on earth that wilhelm II would have been a commander of any military squadron - much less an entire army - in the franco-prussian war. he was only 11 years old when prussia went to war with france in 1870, and was a mere toddler during the six weeks' war with austria.

A minor quibble -- the article refers to him dismissing the "cautious" Bismarck. Given that Bismarck was the architect of German unification, doesn't this make him look a bit weak? Is there a better way to put this? I don't know the circumstances surrounding the dismissal, so I will defer on this.

I noted that statement also and its a very common error. People tend to perceive quiet, calculating and manipulating people as weak, while a jeck who make a lot of noise but actually harmless look threatening. You only end up discovering the truth after the events.

I have read the two guys biography and I would have been scared to deal with Bismark. The guy was a strategic thinker with his eyes homed permanently on power. You can tell that by how he handled France and that telegram. Very strategic indeed. His strategic method ensured he completely destroyed everybody on his way. I can't even be sure whether his peaceful co-existance with the rest of Europe was driven by the need for a united Europe or desire to govern even larger area. The article seem to insenuate its the former, but I feel it was the later.

On the other hand, Wilhelm was very noisy and predictable. The article states " He sought to expand German colonial holdings, "a place in the sun"". However, if you look at most of his actions, they were not cohesive and heading no where, leave alone making Germany a place in the sun. He seemed impropmtu and uncalculating as can be proved by his media interview. Why would he have reglected that interview, if he intended to say what he said. Then there is his health and horrible childhood. Given those facts, I find it hard to blame his entirely for world war 1 and would say the rest of Europe responded in simplistic manner. In short he wasn't as scarely as the former IMHO.

I think his (Bismark) dismissal had something to do with both needed power. If Wilhem was aware of Bismark relationship with the previous kings and needed power, Bismark had zero leverage since he was very unpopular within Germany - no elective power - and deliver all his power from the now hostile monarchy.

Child of Kaiser Wilhelm II

It has been brought to my attention that during Wilhelm's stay at his Summer Palace in Stuttgart he had an affair with a women named Theresia Burian and she had a child (born in Austria under his instruction) by him named Amandus Burian. Does anyone know anything more about this?

Poorly-edited excerpt

I have removed the following excerpt from the "Life after 1918" section and restored the original:

Although he had asked Hitler for a small military funeral, which included August von Mackensen and Rupprecht of Bavaria, along with a few other military advisors. Wilhelm's request was ignored and Hitler gave him a grand funeral 'worthy of an emperor' full with Nazi nationalism and swastikas, a symbol which Kaiser Wilhelm II repeatedly asked not to be displayed ,just like other Nazi regalia, at the final rites was completely ignored.

It had obvious grammatical errors and, in my opinion, contained certain partisan elements.

Kaiser's sexual proclivities

The Kaiser's hand fetish, to which I have just alluded under "trivia," is attested to in Giles Macdonogh's The Last Kaiser: The Life of Wilhelm II. I added this information last year and it was quickly deleted. If this is because of lack of credulity on the part of whoever edited it out, rest assured that the aforementioned book references it in great detail. I hope the information will remain in the future, if only because it's incredibly interesting. Oldkinderhook 18:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC) hez s smothe prestonater[reply]

SHOULD THE TRIVIA SECTION BE REMOVED?

I am of the opinion that the trivia list has gotten far too long and needs to be cropped. People can go on and on and on and on about Wilhelm's absurdities, weird hobbies, sexual orientation nix nix nix.

It will never be exhaustive.

Any suggestions on the next step?