Talk:Najis

Non-Muslims

Khomeini believed non-Muslims to be najis. The information can be verified here. Aucam an^Talk 02:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Najis; Dhimmis

Pecher, could you please let me know if the Dhimmi's were banned not to go out in rain or snow. + was these restrictions at some places and at particular times, or they were global and at all times. Thanks --Aminz 08:28, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Q #1. "Persian Muslims sought to limit contact with non-Muslims by requiring them to settle in separate parts of the city" In which cities did this happen? everywhere? Some cities? all cities? when?

Q #2. "banning them from public baths"; the same questions as above + Did those separate parts of the city have public baths? I believe most people didn't have private baths at that time so banning from public baths means they didn't take bath at all during their whole life?!

Q #3. "or even demanding them not to go out in rain or snow". Who demanded them? When and where was this demanded? was this demand global and at all times? Was it an obligation? Was it a restriction? + why should the sentence above tries to persuade the reader into thinking that such a DEMAND is worst than other RESTRICTIONS? (using the word "even").

Q #4. "where the belief in the uncleanness of non-Muslims brought restrictions and persecutions to the non-Muslim population of Persia." I am asking about the word "persecutions". Does any restriction by itself imply "persecution"? I think "persecution" has the element of violence in it. Doesn't it?

--Aminz 21:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stop removing sourced material from the article, Aminz. Everything here is sourced, sometimes to several sources, and if you have any doubts, you can check the sources directly. Pecher ^Talk 21:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No doubt they are sourced material but I just want to have them more precise. Please answer the above questions which will help us improving the article. Thanks --Aminz 21:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The material in the article is as precise as the one in the sources. If you have questions, you can look into the sources themselves or contact the scholars in question. Pecher ^Talk 21:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above questions are relevant I think. I know that your sentences are quotes from the sources but the sources should give a more detailed picture. Some of the questions are quite natural I think (like Q#2). I don't have access to the sources but you have so please add some quotes that make the sentences more clear. Thanks --Aminz 21:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While details might be of interest, it's up to the requester to provide what he's interested in. Anyway, the deletion of material sourced by scholars and of undisputed factuality is unwarranted, even if the sources should not yield more information. --tickle me 22:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I understand your argument. I actually just talked about this a persian friend who conceded existence of such restrictions. I just removed the word "even" from the intro; the rest is fine with me. --Aminz 00:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some answers

Let me stress that it's not anyone's (certainly not one individual's) responsibility to answer people's questions. You can definitely ask questions, but they're unanswered it doesn't warrant the removal of sourced information. In any case here's an attempt to answer your questions:

I don't know if non-Muslims were required to live in seperate parts of cities, but this was certainly the case wherever religious minorities were present. Even if there was no law requiring it, it certainly would have happened due to social reasons. There should be nothing surprising about this.
Yes non-Muslims were usually not allowed in public bathhouses. In all cases they had their own private bathhouses.
This is mentioned in Bernard Lewis's book, Jews of Islam. Here's a link to the footnote: [1]. See #38. Lewis explains that these rules were specific to the late 19th century Persia.
There have been many cases of violent mob attacks against non-Muslims and their neighborhoods that stemmed from religious intolerance. I don't know of any specific incidents where nijasat played a key role, but non-Muslims being called najis has definitely contributed to the buildup of hatred. I'm reading a book on the forced conversion of Jews of Mashhad (called "Jadid al-Islam"). The book is by Raphael Patai and the title is "Jadid al-Islam". Here's what he has to say about this: "Although these avoidances were observed primarily by the Muslim clergy and the religiously learned and scrupulous persons, they created in the population at large an attitude of contempt toward the Jews that was much more pronounced than what the Jews had to put up with in the Sunni Mulsim environments. [....] One manifestation of this was the repeated occurrence of forced conversions of Jews to Islam in Shi'i Iran." (p. 13 of the text)

This was an attempt to answer your questions. Aucaman^Talk 02:05, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]