Talk:Byronic hero

This article was nominated for deletion on 24 November 2008. The result of the discussion was snowball keep.

Pardon my snobbery, but

Shrek? Seriously? How on earth is he a Byronic hero? Deerlike (talk) 08:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, I like the bullet points

I like them. It really helped me when I was in class the other day to be able to reference a bulleted list, and we even talked about it during class. Even if you put them in a paragraph, consider leaving the list at least in the discussion notes. Thx 149.169.143.137 (talk) 22:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this article has been vandalized? and other random stuff in this discussion

how do these have anything to do with a byronic hero? from the article: how do these have anything to do with a byronic hero? homosexual side to his mind? extreme sense of not using money?

shut up..yes it is a byronic hero!!!!!!!!!

Why is their a "__________" near the end of the page? 151.200.14.185 17:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Several deletions: Milton does not in the least think Satan's complaint God is justified, so the connection is unwarranted. Furthermore, Willoughby, not being by any stretch of the imagination a hero (indeed, he's too inept and psychologically undveloped to even be called much of a villain), cannot be Byronic hero. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.125.54.31 (talk) 02:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dr Who

Dr Who Byronic? Surely not...Opinions please...Colin4C 09:30, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that there have been at least 10 doctors of varying personalities... - Jc37 02:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If any Doctor makes sense as Byronic, it's the Ninth. Eccleston's Doctor had just come out of ending a war by performing genocide against both his race and the enemy. He was an outcast in that he was the only one of his kind left. Tennant's done a good job with this, as well. He also adds the whole "My God, Rose is gone forever" aspect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.228.96 (talk) 06:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Expanding the article

In my opinion, this article isn't as big as I would like it to be. It really isn't in an article format, and doesn't contain that much information. The article was made over two years ago, and has been edited many times since, but many of those have been additions of small details here and there. I personally will try to help contribute to the article (although I'm not much of a literary person) so that we can make this article bigger in size and encompass more information regarding the Byronic hero.

Maybe we could have a section on the Byronic hero in literature and examples of Byronic heros in works of other authors. Also, we could have a section devoted regarding the first Byronic hero in Childe Harold's Pilgrimage. If we could also get rid of the bulletpoints, and state them in paragraph form (with a bit of elaboration), that would be really be of great help.

--Nishkid64 21:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shrinking the article

Let's just put "emo with a cause". Seriously, Nishkid64's proposal is a good one, if someone's got the knowledge.

Added...

I added Master Yehudi from Paul Auster's "Mr. Vertigo" to the paragraph about modern Byronic heroes because I thaught that he serves as a perfect example for the subject (those who read the book will surely agree that every characteristic listed in the article is him). Please note that I'm not a native english speaker, so I may have some grammer errors. 89.138.99.97 (talk) 03:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sherlock Holmes

He is without a doubt a Byronic hero and should be mentioned. He has basically every trait in this list quite strongly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.8.22 (talk) 05:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Holmes only has about 1 of every 5 traits listed for a Byronic hero. Regardless, neither your nor my opinion matters - what matters is if you can find a reliable source that says Holmes is a Byronic hero. Edward321 (talk) 14:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well I read a review describing the Holmes in the new show "Sherlock" as Byronic if that counts. Anyway, here is a list of traits that are byronic in him.

   * a strong sense of arrogance
   * high level of intelligence and perception
   * cunning and able to adapt
   * sophisticated and educated
   * self-critical and introspective
   * mysterious, magnetic and charismatic
   * social and sexual (not  this one) dominance
   * emotional conflicts, bipolar tendencies, or moodiness[citation needed]
   * a distaste for social institutions and norms
   * being an exile, an outcast, or an outlaw
   * "dark" attributes not normally associated with a hero[citation needed]
   * disrespect of rank and privilege
   * self-destructive behaviour  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.8.22 (talk) 15:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Many of those are true for the most recent portrayal of Holmes. OTOH, the original version does not have most of them. Regardless, with a reliable source identifying Holmes as a Byronic hero, that is original research and would be deleted. A local school paper or some guy's blog are not reliable sources. A nationally known reviewer, the director, screenwriter, or actor saying the same thing would count as a reliable source. Edward321 (talk) 23:45, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well I will notify you if I find an agreeable source. Nonetheless, I was reffering to his original incarnation with the traits above. Holmes has strongly demonstrated all of these. He is very logical and intelligent, and seems to have had an excellent education. He is arrogant and critical towards the police such as when an officer failed to pay attention to the red-faced man in A Study in Scarlet, yet also scolds his own mistakes, such as when he made a bad move with following the cab in The Hound of the Baskervilles. He is quite charismatic and was described in a sign of four as an excellent party host, yet also spends a lot of time in deep thought, knows things that astound people and dissapears without trace (The man with the twisted lip). He seems quite bipolar, getting rampantly excited with mysteries and such, propelled into nonstop action without rest for days, but will sometimes spend days in silent recluse. He has been known on several occasions to break laws and rules to get the crime solved (for example, he broke into a house to steal some convicting evidence in one story, I forget). He obviously has little respect for ranks and privelage, after all, he puts down high level police officers and has no qualifications of his own. Self destructive behaviour: Well the drugs and not sleeping of course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.8.22 (talk) 08:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is this a good enough source? It's a proper review from a magazine site (I think) and it says that he plays a byronic character by drawing on the character in the original books rather than doing a loose adaption. http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/Event?oid= Also this one, though I'm less sure about how notable the creator is. http://www.flickfilosopher.com/blog/2009/12/122309sherlock_holmes_review.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.8.22 (talk) 13:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The first link is blank. The second may be a reliable enough source, several other articles seem to cite them. I'll restore the line and add proper citation in the near future.

So, this was several months ago. How about adding him with the proper citation?

Edward321 (talk) 15:58, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dorian Gray, Byronic Hero?

Dorian Gray is not a hero. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.172.75 (talk) 17:39, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eccentricity

Should eccentricity and introversion be included in the list of the Byronic hero's characterisics? It does sound reasonable to me, but will anyone suggest a source? Frater Liberabit (talk) 03:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"The Byronic hero is a variant of the Romantic hero"

Other than the above, it is not at all clear from the article what a Byronic hero is or how one differs from a classic Romantic hero. 68.111.92.12 (talk) 20:24, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]