User talk:Bjornar

Please enter any question at the bottom of this page for clarity. --Bjornar 17:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC) 

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January 2006 - June 2006

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actually, a much more informative collection of people's stories was put out in south korea by one such "defector." he points out that the north koreans who run away to china are overwhelmingly food refugees, not political refugees seeking somesort of western liberal freedom. and, many of them (not sure if it is most or not) return to north korean once they manage to earn/get sufficient resources to help their families. he also speaks of how so many of these refugees feel allegiance and loyalty to their country and government, and it is not because they are "brained washed." the engish title of the book is "outsider" and is only in korean, unfortunately.

I think many people would enjoy its translation. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

as for the "aquariums" book, not denying the story, but what is more important is the way in which many non-north koreans seem uninterested in questioning such accounts, but leap at the chance to contest almost all postive stories about north korea. what is underneath all of this are sets/layers of political agendas.

True, and even I am biased although admittedly aware of it. It would please me to have matters fully investigated so that the allegations can be proven untrue, or to uncover things that need to be corrected. (I am sure every country has something that needs to be corrected). However, how one is to go about trying to do this, and under who's authority an investigation is going to be lead, I've no idea. All I know, is this simple principle: For every serious accusation, there should be a serious investigation and proper procedures. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

and it is all too often these agendas that promote so many calls to label north korea with a passion (dare i say hatred) few other countries encounter. as a friend (he was swedish and lived in north korea for many years) once asked me, "why such hatred towards north korea? what have they ever done to the US?" a good question we might all ask ourselves.

I fail to understand why people still hate eachother in these so called "enlightened" times. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

final point, thank you for writing as you do on wikipedia, bjornar. to write anything postive about north korea (or to see them as human being capable of intelligent choices) very often solicits less than friendly responses. Hongkyongnae 02:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

For every ton of sand, is a small grain of gold. Being so far the only one to take this role so serious on wikipedia may seem lonely, but I've many comrades in Pyongyang who know what I do and while some of them may think it's a lost cause and a waste of time, I've discovered that people are neither as bad or as dumb as one could expect. --Bjornar 17:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Replies from Talk:Bjornar Simonsen

You were gone for almost three months! Why did you abandon Wikipedia in that time? I suppose you made another KFA trip to the DPRK? (You don't have to answer either question if you don't want to.)

Hehe. --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Here they are, copied/pasted to here:

1. Why can't Korean Central Television lionize KIS and KJI enough? When will North Korea feel that these leaders (and whoever else they've been lionizing) have been lionized enough already? Why can't KCTV show current events from outside the DPRK?

What is lionize?

• • Definition of "Lionize". In Norway, the US, ROK, and just about anywhere else in the world, you'll see a lot more variety on their TV channels than on the North Korean ones. When will the North Korean people decide they've lionized Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il enough? Why can't they bother to put much more on their airwaves than that? --Shultz IV 02:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The people of the DPRK assign great social importance to the three generals from Mount Paektu, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Suk. It was through these great personalities that Korea was liberated from imperial occupation. Had it not been for the formation of Juche-Korea, the whole of the Korean peninsula would still be in the grip of foreign powers, not in the interest of the Korean people. Daily life inside the DPRK is focused on family, work and social education. There is no need for anything else to make the life of the ordinary worker happy. If foreign television was introduced to DPRK society without any guidance, people would be very confused and could be lead to think, by seeing nice cars, people with fancy clothes, and expensive things, that the west has more to offer and that living in a capitalist society is better than living in a socialist country. True to the ideal of not polluting the people with media content, the authorities of DPRK broadcasting has correctly made the wise decision of not offering any content from outside sources. This means that broadcasting is only adapted for Korean needs, discarding everything that is counter-society or counter-productive or against the teachings of our leaders. My individual opinion is that some content from western programming should be showed on a regular basic, teaching people about the reality of capitalist societies, so people can appreciate how safe the DPRK society is from crime, poverty, unemployment, expensive housing, and other social problems that plague the west. Such programming would have to be guided and adapted to a DPRK audience an narrated in Korean, and not displace Korean culture (i.e. not take much more than 1% of programming time). --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

2. If there's religious freedom in the DPRK, why isn't there a religious channel that spreads God's Word, wisdom, and pastors' sermons? In South Korea and many other countries, there are TV channels meant specifically for religious broadcasting, so why doesn't the DPRK have it if religious freedom exists there?

Because most people aren't religious, and those who beleive study in their own circles. If any religion grows above more than half the population, I would figure more TV programming would be dedicated, but not at this rate.

Besides, living in the UK I have failed to ever notice a TV channel specifically dedicated to broadcasting religious doctrine... this line of argument can barely be considered proof that the people of North Korea are therefore oppressed in terms of religious belief! 86.135.172.95 20:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Good point! --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• • If you say there is religious freedom in the DPRK, then would you like to allow Christian missionaries to pay the country a visit, distribute Bibles, and spread the Good News about the Lord? --Shultz IV 02:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I said there is religios freedom in the DPRK, not that foreigners are free to influence and try to convert people. There is a very clear difference. You are allowed to worship whatever god you beleive in, but not to influence others. People must themselves realize their faith. People are free to individually seek out information about other religions, and there are books available in every subject about religion inside the public library. Foreigners are not allowed to drag their combined religious and political agenda into the DPRK. Too many missionaries use religion to promote "their" style of values from western societies onto Koreans. Clearly that agenda is in conflict with Juche-Korea and not in the interest of Koreans. However, some Christian groups who demonstrated that they can respect the society of the DPRK has been given freedom to come to DPR Korea and to do Christian work in our country, in the sake of humanity and solidarity with the DPRK people, as well as to hold joint mass with Christian Koreans and worship together. This demonstrates there is will to support Christianity for Korean Christianity itself, while respecting the rest of the Korean people who may have other beleifs. Remember that after the Fatherland Liberation War (Korean War), many Korean churches were destroyed by yankee imperialist's bombs. Our Leader Kim Il Sung rebuilt the churches so the Christian Koreans could have churches to go to. This is one example of our Leaders's great compassion with people of all races, religions and desire for people to be in peace and respect with all people. --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

3. Why haven't I seen KFA members that are women, black, or oriental in any of the KFA videos?

We have many members from Asia and Africa and all over the world. Which video do you refer to specifically?

• • I once saw a video about a KFA trip from '04. At the Gojeang (Kochang) Cooperative Farm, Andrew Morse (IIRC) said "disaster", and you corrected him and said "Hardship". Later, Alejandro made a much bigger deal about it and gave Andrew a real hard time. Except for the hispanic Alejandro, all of the KFA members in that video were Caucasian/white. Unfortunately, the link I saw it from doesn't supply that video anymore. --Shultz IV 02:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

David Borenstein, a KFA member, who was in this short footage, is not white. He is half Jew, half Syrian. Furthermore, to judge the KFA's preference to race based on some glitchy footage from the internet, showing a couple of minutes from the KFA's 6 year long history, is misguided. We have many non-white KFA members, among them several thousand Chinese. But since the colour of your skin really doesn't matter to me, I feel it is pointless to discuss that issue. --Bjornar 18:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope to take a look at their pictures sometime. When does the korea-dpr.com site next get updated with new photos of never-before-seen KFA members? --Shultz IV 18:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The KFA gallery already have pictures of people from different races from those who attended DPRK trips and willingly had their photo taken. Most (99%) of the KFA members never visit the DPRK or have their picture taken. Also, the second largest member group are US citizens, thus the issue of race is totally pointless. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Btw, you must've gone on a KFA trip to the DPRK in the last two or so months. What changes did you see over there? I'm hoping you saw some significant changes; I read from reports made by tourists who visited the DPRK that it's like "the clock turned back several decades" as soon as they crossed over from Dandong to Sinuiju. They reported a lot of advertisements, that is, of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il.

I don't understand your question. Are you talking about advertisement or changes since my last visit?? --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

In another blog, one says it's like time stopped in the 1970s in Gaeseong. No building that looks newer than 1970s construction was seen there. Another blog says that Pyongyang (and maybe some other visited cities) looked a lot like Leningrad in 1969.

Stupid, since neither the Koryo hotel nor the Yangkkakdo hotel in Pyongyang hardly looks like anything found in Leningrad in 1969. Also look at the Korea Computer Center building which is hyper-modern. Go to the www.kcckp.net website and read in People's Korea or Pyongyang today and you'll find many modern buildings. If you read blogs, make sure you also check other sources before beleiving them. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

So then Bjornar, have you seen anything new constructed in your latest trip to North Korea? Did you ask Alejandro about visiting the village of Yodok to prove that there was no "Kwan-Li-So No. 15" (a.k.a. a political concentration/labor camp?) --Shultz IV 04:02, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

All I saw was a normal village driving past. Unfortunately there was no time to into the village and examine the area more closely. Maybe next time. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

4. I know there are children in North Korean orphanages that need to be adopted by somebody. Moreover, many people worldwide are willing to adopt North Korean foster children. Why isn't it happening? Sad, really. --Shultz IV 20:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Since the terrible Arduous March, many children were left as orphans, either because parents died, or because they could not care for their children. It sounds grotesque but these were terrible times. In these days, there are a lot of orphans. Many orphans are now 8 or 9 years old. Often, there are 2-3 employees who take care of a large group of children in each orphanage. I cannot say the exact number. Also, to adopt DPRK children is something I haven't heard about anyone attempting before, and I don't think our ministries or committees here has heard about it either. If anyone wants to adopt a DPRK child, this presents with some cultural/political/ideological challenges, but any parent with infinate patience and a solid economy could probably succceed in something. Anyone interested may contact korea@korea-dpr.com and proceed to explain their intentions. I will support the idea of atleast giving it a try. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

5. Why North Koreans can't leave their country? I don't really think it's democratic! --gacek91 12:07, 19 June 2006 (CET)

Who said DPRK citizens can't leave their country? Many do every day of those who live near the Chinese border. For them, crossing the border is inexpensive and convenient. Travelling to other countries than China is both impractical and too expensive for an average citizen. --Bjornar 18:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

BPOV is policy, not article

Your article BPOV would probably be better placed somewhere here: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy). I've nominated it for deletion not because of any opinion on its contents but just because a wiki article is not the place to suggest a new policy for running wiki.
Cheers. Dybryd 18:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

bjornar, i had the same reception from wiki for my "no npov" attempts. we may need to figure another route for this discussion on wiki philosophy. i liked your bpov page by the way. Hongkyongnae 18:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! I followed their guidelines and posted a reference to it on Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy) as they said. Let's see what they make of it there.--Bjornar 17:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

just posted a response on the Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy). again, you have good points, but the responses i read dont really seem to grasp the importance of critically analyzing your assumptions on knowing and producing knowledge. oh well. Hongkyongnae 02:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I've posted a reply to provoke a reaction. If it fails, I guess I will begin attacking NPOV in the NPOV discussion area and to involve via e-mail the Wikipedia founder.--Bjornar 14:07, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

hi bjornar. i just added some more to the Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy). thanks for caring forth on this issue. as i mentioned on the pump, we may be becoming little wiki-guerillas. :) Hongkyongnae 15:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

North Korea's System of Government?

We're currently trying to reach a consensus on what to put for North Korea's system of government in the North Korea article's infobox. The discussion is going on here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:North_Korea#System_of_Government Please give us your input! crazyeddie 06:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Question from Cxk271 (moved from main page)

Apologies if this the wrong place for this question but I have one for you. How can you defend such a vile, morally bankrup regime as the current one in the DPRK? (This isn't meant to be an attack its a genuine question)Cxk271 22:35, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Cxk271, your question seem not so much as a question nor does it sound anything other than an attack. I don't think it is a very respectful question, since you obviously must know that I wouldn't sit here representing the DPRK had I agreed to what you are saying in your question. So I think you already know the answer. Still, I will grant you a simple answer for you to ponder: Because nobody else will. --Bjornar 22:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)