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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Volfied (talk | contribs) at 02:42, 22 October 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I made the mistake of leaping before I got a good look at the whole article. I removed a reference to WWIII, which deviated from any scholarly description of the events explicitly foretold in Revelations. Had I read the rest of the article, I would have seen that it is rife with such predictions. These eschatological interpretations of scripture would be better suited to an article of their own; one expressly for that purpose. Such surmising is not appropriate in an objective description of Revelations. I'm not prepared to go and remove everything, as I'm something of an interloper, but I strongly encourage someone with more clout to do so. -- Volfied

There could probably also be something said about pre- and post-millenialism, and about the "pantribulationist" position: never mind the details, it will all pan out in the end. I've actually heard that last one quite a bit, in several different circles.  ;-) --Wesley

what about Preterism?

According to Pretribulationism, all Christians then alive will be taken bodily up to heaven (called the rapture or Parousia) before the Tribulation begins, although many who become Christians before the rapture will live through (or perish during) the Tribulation.

Who exactly will have to live through the Tribulation? --AxelBoldt

As I understand it, pretribulationists believe that Jesus will come and take away all the Christian believers at the time of the Rapture. All non-Christians (including Christians who aren't 'real' Christians) will remain on earth, and will have to live through or more likely die during the Tribulation. However, during the time of the Tribulation, many of the non-Christians left behind by the Rapture will become Christians. These new Christians will have to live through the Tribulation, or die or be martyred during it. At the end, Jesus will return for those who became Christians during the Tribulation, and to deal with (consign to hell?) the rest. -- SJK

So the passage in question should be reworded to 'although many who will become Christians after the rapture...'? EddEdmondson 13:48, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. Fixed the article. -- DavidCary 02:16, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just making sure: "Paraousia" and "Parousia" as used in this article are distinct terms, and both are correct? DSatz 19:09, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

I will attempt to fix this line: "Here is a timeline of the events to come during the Tribulation period according to the book of Revelation," to reflect other interpretations regarding the time(s) these events occur. Traditionally, the seven trumpets are thought to occur during the Tribulation, with the seals of the book covering the span of humankind's history, and the vials/bowls happening during the Wrath of God (after the Millennial reign of Christ). Of course, some events seem to overlap, so the explanation needs to allow for that. --Kibbitzer 3 July 2005 11:13 (UTC)

Some interpret the white horse and rider of Rev.6:2 to represent Jesus (and the Church)--going forth to conquer evil--and use Rev.19:11-14 as a cross reference. May be worthwhile to mention this in the appropriate spot.--Kibbitzer 04:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Historical View

“The Tribulation would have ended, according to this understanding, at the restoration of the nation of Israel in 1948 or at the return of Jerusalem to Jewish control in 1967.”

I am puzzled by this conclusion for this is not the historicist viewpoint as I know it. The historicist viewpoint believes the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation represent the entire history of the church up to Christ's Second Coming and the establishment of the new kingdom under Christ – not a fulfillment of the restoration of physical Israel. The historicist viewpoint recognizes that all references to Israel after Christ’s first coming now represent spiritual Israel – not physical Israel.

Additional Information:

As stated, the historicist sees the papacy as the fulfillment of the "Little Horn Power" referenced in Daniel 7:24. It also sees the papacy as the harlot woman in Revelation 17 with the vision of the terrible seven headed/ten horned beast in Daniel as the same - just different characteristics. 

  Daniel 7:24
  The ten horns are ten kings
   Who shall arise from this kingdom.
   And another shall rise after them;
   He shall be different from the first ones,
   And shall subdue three kings.

The historicist viewpoint believes the statue vision in Daniel Chapter 2 is the entire history of the church up until Christ's Second Coming with the rock that crushes as Christ's Second Coming. This is a different viewpoint than the Preterist and Futurists. Here is a comparison of the different viewpoints: 

  Statue                  Historicist     Preterist    Futurist
  Head of Gold            Babylon         Babylon      Babylon
  Chest/arms of Silver    Media-Persia    Media        Media-Persia
  Thighs of Bronze        Greece          Persia       Greece
  Legs of Iron            Pagan Rome      Greece       Pagan Rome
  Feet of Iron & Clay     Papal Rome      Pagan Rome   Pagan Rome

The historicist viewpoint considers the different prophecies given in Daniel as the same prophecies; just different characteristics which help identify the kingdoms and events in history. That the idea that God gives prophecy in multiple forms was established in Genesis 41 where God gave the pharaoh of Egypt the vision of the seven cows (fat and thin) and the seven heads of grain (plump and blighted). Daniel chapter 8 provides the vision of the goat and the ram which allows us to identify Media-Persia and Greece as the next two kingdoms. The ten horns of the “terrible beast” allow us to identify the ten gothic tribes that destroyed pagan Rome with the three uprooted as the destroyed empires of the Vandals, Heruli and Ostrogoth’s. So and so forth…

The historicist also considers the idea of “seven years of tribulation” as a gross error and misinterpretation of scripture. The idea of the “seven years of tribulation” is the foundation of the “secret rapture” and “dispensationalism”. The error being that the seven years of Daniel’s prophecy where fulfilled in Christ’s first advent and has nothing to do with Christ’s Second Coming. That the scripture of Daniel 9:26 states: 

    Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

That this reference parallels Isaiah’s reference in chapter 53:8 

    For He was cut off from the land of the living;

Both making reference to the crucifixion of Christ.

Thus it is the Messiah/Jesus Christ that is "cut off" - not the week. That the "seventieth week of Daniel" has already been fulfilled. That the Futurist interpretations which includes all the variations of the "tribulation" are Biblically incorrect with saying the "week was cut off".

Joe Cipriani

--CipriaJ9999 12:43, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The links on this article are not described as per WP:EL. Also some of them seem to point to, for want of a better word, idiosyncratic views. Can someone who knows more about the subject than I do at least add descriptions to assist in assessing what the links are about please? - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 13:34, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]


NPOV

"It is believed and accepted..."? Not by me. Can we get some NPOV? User:The_dogandpony

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