Talk:Wigan/Archive 2

Romans

I heard that Wigan was called Coccium by the Romans because of the red clay found in the area (example: the red brook in Haigh Hall grounds), perhaps that could be added if it is correct? Starsailor are from Chorley, but were formed at Wigan Tech, too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.155.230.194 (talk • contribs) 22:28, 22 January 2005.

The "red" brook is more properly called "The Yellow Brook". The name comes from the yellow-to-red deposits of iron oxides, etc., that come/came from surrouding old mine workings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.92.168.177 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 23 January 2005.

See Aspull —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.158.182 (talk • contribs) 14:28, 17 May 2005.

The rust coloured deposits are known as 'Hockery'. A brook coloured that way is always known as 'Hockery Brook'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 19 October 2006.

Marks and Spencer

HOWEVER, THE CLAIM THAT MARKS AND SPENCER WAS FOUNDED IN WIGAN IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED. THE RETAIL COMPANY WAS ACTUALLY FOUNDED IN MANCHESTER, NOT WIGAN, THE SECOND STORE WAS THEN OPENED IN LEEDS. THIS CAN BE CONFIRMED BY READING THE COMPANY HISTORY, SOME OF WHICH IS SHOWN ON MARKS AND SPENCER WEBSITE AS ' OUR HISTORY '. IN WHICH THERE IS NO MENTION OF WIGAN. originally posted by User:84.43.40.112 to article instead of talk page FreplySpang (talk) 6 July 2005 23:52 (UTC)

OK I'll remove this. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.32.162.69 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 7 July 2005.

MARKS and SPENCER was NOT formed in Wigan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 19 October 2006.

Population

The population figure of 300000 is for the Metroplitan Borough not the town which is much smaller. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.248.225.148 (talk • contribs) 13:09, 17 October 2005.

Pataks

Patak's is not based in Wigan but is based in Leigh (see Patak's office locations. Jhaselden 14:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Spice/Curry firm PATAKS head office is Kiriana House, Haydock Lane, HAYDOCK, near St.Helens, WA11 9UZ. This address is printed on the labels on the jars. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 19 October 2006.

Lancastrians

The point about Lancastrians is reinstated, by a local who knows what he is writing about. This is an inportant point about local culture. The Local Government Act 1972 abolished previous existing local government structures, and created a two-tier system of counties and districts. Some of the new counties were designated Metropolitan Counties, containing Metropolitan Boroughs. Although the Metropolitan County Councils were abolished in 1986, the Metropolitan County of Greater Manchester, containing Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, remains – although Wigan residents also regard themselves as Lancastrians. The link to Local Government Act 1972 adequately covers the technical point about 1986, without interrupting the flow of the point(s) being made.Skull 'n' Femurs 00:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

An actual place does not change just because of a change in local government. The authority may change but the place is still the same. Belfast is still Belfast, in Ireland, even though it is under British rule. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

Government Statement. .......

'Note that the LGA 1972 did not do anything to the historic Counties of Britain. It only abolished the administrative counties and county boroughs. The Government was (and still is) happy to confirm that the Counties themselves were unaffected...'

"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties)

The 'Duchy of Lancaster' still considers the historic boundaries of Lancashire to be in place.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

Why is it considered nonesense for the Wigan article to state that Wigan is in Lancashire, even though sports teams based in Greater Manchester are clearly being included in the Lancashire article. ?????

RICHARD ASHCROFT et al

WHAT ABOUT RICHARD ASHCROFT OF THE VERVE? JOE LYDON? SEAN EDWARDS? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.6.129.141 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 5 February 2006.

THE VERVE are NOT a Wigan group. None of the members are from Wigan. Richard Ashcroft is NOT from Wigan. Nick McCabe is from Haydock. He went to Haydock High School and dislikes Wigan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 19 October 2006.

The majority of people born in Wigan were born in Billinge Hospital (Like Richard Ashcroft), how the hell can Ashcroft be described as not from Wigan?. If that is the case the majority of people in the town must also not be from Wigan.

So, if he was born in Billinge Hospital, he must be from Billinge then, NOT Wigan. Most people from St.Helens area were also born in Billinge Hospital, after all, it was the maternity hospital covering the area, not only Wigan. Small town minds strike again! (he's actually from Skelmersdale).

If a dog is born in a stable, is it a horse?

The people in this list were either born or brought up in Wigan (not necessarily both), or have had some significant connection with the town during their life.

... That's what it say's on the list. Ashcroft was neither born, or brought up, in Wigan. I know of no 'significant' connections with Wigan either, as all the claims about Wigan and The Verve are untrue. He even 'dislikes' being regarded as coming from Wigan, he's even said so in interviews and regards it as myth and rumour.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

I would be very grateful if you could point us to, or at least find a transcript of said interview(s). This is from a personal point of view as well as the article's. -- Hindleyite 15:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

online interview. Nick McCabe, asked about the Verve gig at Haigh Hall ....

AS: Right – you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really…none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187

Congratulations to the above person for deliberately missing out important information on that quote. Looking at your own talk history I get the impression you have something against Wigan. The full quote is here:-

"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."

82.33.171.111 00:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I would agree that 'The Verve' were formed in Winstanley, which just happens to be in the 'Wigan Metropolitan Borough', but not in Wigan, which is a town in the 'Wigan Metropolitan Borough'. Whatever rumour and belief that is written by people who 'think they know', and who 'want it to be', the truth of the matter is that Ashcroft grew up in Skelmersdale, not Wigan, and Skelmersdale ain't Wigan, is it? We all know that the group was formed in Winstanley College, 'IN WINSTANLEY', none of the band members actually being from Wigan. George Formby is a 'REAL' Wiganer ... Show off about him instead.

As McCabe has already said ... Well, not really…'none of us are actually from Wigan'.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

If you think the fact that 'numerous people 'THINK' that The Verve were a Wigan band', amounts to them having 'significant connections' to the town of Wigan, then you must be another 'small minded' individual!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

Wow, thanks for this. I regard myself as a Wiganer as I come from Hindley, my mother is from Hindley and my Father from Whelley. Am I small minded? Well, that's down to individual opinion. :) -- Hindleyite 20:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks to the above person (80.192.242.187) who hates the fact that The Verve are connected to Wigan and therefore deleted all my proof along with facts and links, so I will just merely post them again:-

Congratulations to the above person (80.192.242.187) for deliberately missing out important information on that quote. Looking at your own talk history I get the impression you have something against Wigan. The full quote is here:-

"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."

Link: http://www.excellentonline.com/article.php3?story_id=786

PROOF that they formed in Wigan and therefore have Wigan connections. Those words come from Mccabes own mouth.

Now seeing as we are using quotes from the internet, lets go to The Verves OFFICIAL site. On the front page it clearly states the words:-

"The Verve, from Wigan were formed in 1990"

Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/

This is the OFFICIAL site front main page don’t forget. If you also visit the biography page on this official site then you get the following words:-

"The Verve, from Wigan in Lancashire"

Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?biography=1

Also on the The Verves official site Richard Ashcroft tells us when he rented a flat in Wigan:-

“When we signed a deal, we got a stash of money. I rented a flat in Wigan and in that flat we just had the most ridiculously indulgent, decadent six months”

Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=IV010

In another part of this website, they have a few quotes from journalists who reviewed their albums, one of the quotes is:-

"A selection of echoed-out acoustic versions and firing US remixes from the Wigan weirdos"

Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=R009

Now surely if this band hated Wigan and wanted nothing to do with Wigan then they would not even want the word Wigan quoted on their own website.

Richard Ashcroft, Simon Jones and Peter Salisbury met at Upholland High School

Address:- Upholland High School, Sandbrook Road, WIGAN

Link: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/reports/119/119751.pdf

They then met Nick Mcabe and formed the band at Winstanley College

Address:- Winstanley College, Winstanley Rd, Billinge, WIGAN

Link: http://www.axcis.co.uk/47925.html

As for the argument futher up this page about Billinge Hospital, the full address of this place is (or more accurately I should say “was” is it no longer exists)

Adress:- Billinge Hospital Upholland Rd, Billinge, WIGAN

Link: http://www.192.com/directory.cfm/WIGAN/HOSPITAL/XB844094CA4A242C0B1B028F24A050FB7

Right, I have quoted links from “the verves” official site but everyone knows that they no longer exist, meaning that site won’t be updated very often, so lets now move on to Richard Ashcroft’s official site as he is now having success as a solo artist.

On the biography page of Richard Ashcroft’s OFFICIAL site, the following quote is mentioned:-

“Verve, a psychedelic rock band he'd formed with three mates at Winstanley College in Wigan”

also mentioned on the same page is the following quote:-

“Ashcroft watched with immense pleasure as his hometown club Wigan Athletic, with whom he played as a junior, have risen to Premiership prominence”

link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/aboutBiography.php

Also on Richard Ashcrofts official site is a section of media press cuttings that have been kept, showing past interviews with Richard and articles on his success.

I will show a few links of these articles along with quotes mentioning Wigan

1. Daily Mail - 20th Jan 06

“Since then, the 34-year-old from Wigan has flattered to deceive"

link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/DailyMail20jan06.jpg

2. Glamour Magazine - March 06

“Though the band, who met at college in their hometown of Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/GlamourMarch06-2.jpg

3. Q magazine – Feb 06

“Born 11th September in Billinge, Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-4.jpg

“In 1998 the verve played a huge show in their hometown, Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-5.jpg

“there’s a part of me that wants to pull up outside me school in Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-6.jpg

4. Telegraph Magazine – Jan 06

“Growing up in Wigan, Ashcroft was mad for football”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg

“Before their second gig, supporting a more established Wigan band, Ashcroft declared in the local paper in his first interview, ‘we’re gonna blow ‘em off the stage! This town ain’t big enough for the both of us!’”

“I used to arrive in London sometimes at the record company with no shoes, on the bus from Wigan”

“neglecting to pay the rent on his Wigan flat”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg

5. Wigan Observer – May 06

“If you’re talking about Wigan as the place that inspired me, it was the people that inspired me, It was the people that I loved”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-1.jpg

“As a kid from Wigan at the age of 17, I had a dream to play a gig in London”

“The Verve’s 1998 35,000 people extravaganza at Haigh Hall, should have become an annual music fetival which will put Wigan on the world music map. ‘Haigh is a very special place to me’ he said. ‘My Mum used take me for walks in the plantations, hand in hand, magical place. That’s why we chose it in 1998’”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-2.jpg

If that’s still not enough then you can actually hear richard Ashcroft interviewed on the Chris Moyles (BBC Radio 1 DJ) show podcast. Exactly 21 minutes and 15 seconds into the podcast Richard is talking about playing his first tour of America at Lollapalooza and states the following:-

“playing football with Tibetan monks at the age of 21 from Wigan in places in America that Americans don’t know about”

Link: http://ia301106.us.archive.org/3/items/ChrisMoylesBestof_BestofMoyles_14_07_2006/bestofmoyles_20060714-0700_40_pc.mp3 (This link is a direct download of the podcast)

There are more links I can provide but there is enough evidence here to clearly prove the connections between The Verve, Richard Ashcroft and Wigan.

So from now on please don’t mention that The Verve have nothing to do with Wigan, please don't mention that The Verve are not a Wigan group, please don’t mention that Richard Ashcroft dislikes Wigan and please do not remove Richard Ashcroft from the “notable people” section on the Wikipedia Wigan page.

82.33.171.111 00:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

- - THE VERVE ARE DEFINATELY NOT A WIGAN GROUP. THEY FORMED IN WINSTANLEY, NEAR WIGAN (but not Wigan) AND NONE OF THE BAND MEMBERS ARE FROM WIGAN. FACT. IF IT SAYS ANYTHING ELSE, ANYWHERE ELSE, IT IS ONLY BECAUSE OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERYWHERE WITHIN TEN MILES OF WIGAN IS WIGAN, WHEN IT IS NOT.

UNTIL THE BAND MEMBERS THEMSELVES PUBLISH A STATEMENT SAYING THAT THEY ARE FROM WIGAN, THE VERVE WILL REMAIN A 'NOT FROM WIGAN' GROUP. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.171.111 (talk • contribs) .

And, while on the subject, if you insist on putting Ashcroft on the list as a Notable Wigan Person, why do you leave out all the other band members, as they played just as important a part as him and they all met at the same place, ie. Winstanley Sixth Form College, in Winstanley, near Wigan, and, like Ashcroft, they are also not from Wigan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

A postal address is not a guide to where somewhere actually is, it is merely the nearest 'post town' where the sorting office is located. The Wigan sorting office covers parts of Lancashire and Merseyside too. Indeed, parts of Wigan Borough are in Warrington, Manchester and Bolton postal areas, but they aren't 'in' any of those places, just like Winstanley, Billinge, Upholland and Skelmersdale are NOT 'in' Wigan. You Plonker!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

Replying to the above answers - I have given quotes from their own official sites stating that they are from Wigan and if you read (and listened to) all the links then you would have heard Richard Ashcroft describing himself as from Wigan. The fact that you still refuse to believe this after all the links I have provided is absolutely comical. It seems that you are on a one man crusade to rewrite history. Richard Ashcroft says he is from Wigan, yet you say he isn't, that's got to be the strangest thing yet????? I suggest you read all the links as you clearly have ignored them all.

I have put Richard Ashcroft on the list as a notable Wigan person and not the others due to him being the lead singer and frontman/spokesperson of the band, he is clearly the most notable person, if people wish to put the other band members on then fine. It's a bit like Billy Boston, Sean Edwards and Andrew Farrel are the only notable rugby players on the list because they are three of the most well known and truly great gifted Wigan players who stand out, yet there have been hundreds more good rugby players from Wigan.

With regards to the paragraphs in capital letters, no need to shout, my hearing is perfectly fine thanks.

As for me being a plonker, Hmmmm, maybe I have been called this once or twice in my life, well at least you have got something right on this Wigan page for a change :D—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.171.111 (talk • contribs) .

82.33.171.111 00:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

They are generally known as a Wigan band, but it's not true, only a generalisation, the same as saying Salford is in Manchester when it's clearly not. It is entirely up to Ashcroft to 'think' he comes from anywhere the fancy takes him. However, as nice as it may be, to think you are from somewhere you aren't, the truth of the matter is that Ashcroft does not come from Wigan at all. Skelmersdale can not be, and never has been, historically or otherwise, in Wigan, and that is where he is from. It's just the same as Leigh not being in Wigan, even though some Wiganers say it is. Neither is Hindley, or Ashton, Tyldesley, or Golborne, the list is endless.

Regardless of that fact, there is no denying that Richard Ashcroft has Wigan connections, he has lived in Wigan, played his first gig in a Wigan pub, started recording in a Wigan studio, says he comes from Wigan and even performed the verves most famous "homecoming" gig at Wigan (these are just a few things i have cited above, there will be more). Now I know nothing about Richard Ashcrofts upbringing in Skelmersdale, if you could provide links and references like I have with the Wigan connections, it would be much appreciated. Even if you prove this, then it means that Richard Ashcroft deserves a place on the notable people section of the Skelmersdale wikipedia page as well as the Wigan page, hell, he should be having a mention on the Gloucestershire page too because that's were he is living right now. If the people of Gloucestershire decide to this, I won't mind, you won't find me deleting his name from their page because it would be true, he WOULD be connected and in their notable people section.

82.33.171.111 10:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

If you can prove that Ashcroft has lived in Wigan, by giving me the name of the Wigan Street in which he lived, I'll concede defeat that he should be on the list!

User talk:80.192.242.187

I don't know the Wigan street in which he lived but the proof is in 2 of the above links I quoted previously about him having a flat in Wigan.

Now I will say this, I have proved all facts in previous discussions by providing valid links, most of them from official sites. It is quite clear in these quotes that Richard Ashcroft has a huge and valid connection to Wigan. You have claimed you know of no significant connections and you have also claimed that he dislikes Wigan. I now ask you to provide proof and links for these claims along with proof and links of his upbringing in Skelmersdale which I asked for previously.

82.33.171.111 14:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

After asking a couple of 'connected' people, I can confirm that, as far as they know, the nearest place to Wigan that Richard Ashcroft has ever lived is Orrell (near to the station in the village). He went there from Skelmersdale. Wigan may be the 'nearest town', but neither place is 'in' Wigan.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

- - Orrell is in Wigan, end of discussion. There is no way Orrell can now be described as a village as it is connected by urban development to Pemberton. It is now simply an area of Wigan in the same way that Ince and Pem are.

However, he has a place in the Notable People on the strength of the fictitious myth, believed by many, that he has Wigan connections. After all, only Wigan would be daft enough to name 'Wallace and Grommit' as being 'famous Wiganers' when they are merely fictitional cartoon characters. (from near Preston).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

The same 'connected people' are saying he is from Wigan, it's you who keep saying he's not.

As for Wallace and Gromit, they ARE from Wigan and thoroughly deserve a mention in the notable people section. I thought you had a sense of humour? and it's Nick Park the creator who is from Preston not Wallace and Gromit themselves. who knows? they may even visit Yates's chippy in the next episode!!

82.33.171.111 22:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

QUESTION: WHERE DID RICHARD ASHCROFT & THE VERVE DO THEIR "HOMECOMING GIG" ?

ANSWER: HAIGH HALL, WIGAN.

I'M SICK OF HEARING BITTER YOKELS FROM PLACES LIKE WEST LANCS MOANING ABOUT WHERE THE VERVE WENT TO SCHOOL & ONE OF THEM LIVING IN SKUMSDALE FOR A BIT (SIMON TONG, THE 5TH MEMBER LIVED IN SKEM... AND HE ONLY PLAYED ON ONE ALBUM - THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT SCOUSERS LISTEN TO THEIR WIGAN ACCENTS).

MEASURING HOW FAR THEIR PARENTS HOUSES ACTUALLY WERE FROM WIGAN TOWN CENTRE BY THE INCH FROM SOME SMALL TIME LOCAL COUNCIL BORDER (WEST LANCS - AGAIN!!!) IS A DESPERATE GRAB FOR ATTENTION BY YOKELS WHO ARE TRYING TO CREATE SOME KIND OF IDENTITY FOR THEIR OWN NO-MARK FARMER VILLAGE.

ASHCROFT ALWAYS PRAISES WIGAN IN INTERVIEWS AND OPENLY TALKS ABOUT BEING FROM WIGAN ALL OF THE TIME. (SEARCH THE NME WEBSITE FOR HIS INTERVIEWS IF YOU THINK I'M WRONG.)

I'M FROM WIGAN BUT I WAS ACTUALLY BORN IN BILLINGE HOSPITAL BACK IN 1975 AND SO WERE 95% OF THE PEOPLE AT MY SCHOOLS IN WIGAN (PROBABLY BECAUSE WIGAN INFIRMARY DIDN'T HAVE A MATERNITY WARD BACK THEN IN THE 70S WHEN MYSELF & MR ASHCROFT WERE BORN).

ACCORDING TO SOME OF THESE DUMB ASS STATEMENTS, WIGAN CONSISTS ONLY OF THE TOWN CENTRE, SPRINGFIELD & SWINLEY. SINCE WHEN HAS HINDLEY NOT BEEN IN WIGAN ? THEY HAVE ONE OF THE STRONGEST WIGAN ACCENTS IN WIGAN ?

MR W. IGANER, WIGAN (NEAR BILLINGE).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.132.236 (talk • contribs).

- - If you were born in Billinge Hospital you are a Wiganer, end of discussion.90% of the town was born in Billinge Hospital. Orrell/Pemberton/Ince/Platt Bridge are all 'in' Wigan. This point needs no further discussion—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs).

- - - - Oh, but it does! ..... 90% of St.Helensers were also born in Billinge Hospital, are they Wiganers too?

- - - - Doesn't Whiston Hospital provide maternity services for St Helens? Unfortunately if you were in Billinge Hospital when you popped out you are 'originally' from Wigan. (note originally).

And, Mr. Dumb Ass W.Iganer, I see you have had to post in 'BIG WRITING' so that other Dunb Ass Wiganers can read it too. Wigan has signposts, in 'Big Writing' to let you Wiganers know when you are actually 'in' Wigan. As for Ashcroft, HE IS FROM SKELMERSDALE. (so you can read it, lad) and if he thinks otherwise he's a joey. McCabe is from St.Helens. Ashcroft has a scouse twang, as does McCabe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

- - Seeing as Ashcroft started talking with a manc accent a few years ago then changed to something else, the point about him having a scouse twang doesn't really make sense.

THE BIG WRITING IS FOR MORONS LIKE YOU WHO SEEM TO BE STRUGGLING TO GET THE FACTS INTO YOUR THICK HEAD. I'LL DRAW YOU A PICTURE IF IT HELPS.

IF SOMEONES FAMILY IS FROM ST HELENS BUT THEY ARE DRIVEN TO A HOSPITAL IN BILLINGE FOR A FEW HOURS TO BE DELIVERED AT BIRTH, THEN THEY GROW UP IN ST HELENS THEN THEY ARE FROM ST HELENS BUT BORN IN BILLINGE... NOONE SAID THAT WOULD MAKE THEM A WIGANNER ? WHERE D'YER GET THAT FROM YOU BUMPKIN FOOL ? ITS REALLY NOT DIFFICULT SO PLEASE TRY AND KEEP UP EH "LAD" ?

TO BE HONEST I COULDN'T GIVE A TOSS WHAT YOKELS LIKE YOU WANT TO TELL YOURSELVES. ASHCROFTS FAMILY WHERE FROM WIGAN AND IF YOU READ ASHCROFTS INTERVIEWS HE'LL TELL YOU WHERE HE'S FROM HIMSELF (W - I - G - A - N !!!) IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT THAT THEN ITS YOUR PROBLEM. YOUR OBVIOUSLY A BORDERLINE RETARD/VILLAGE IDIOT!

NOW GO MILK THE COWS FARMBOY !!! END OF !

P.S GEORGE FORMBY IS FROM LEIGH (NOT WIGAN)

NEXT YOU'LL BE TELLING ME THAT DIRTY PLACE YOU CALL SKELMSDALE (OR SKUMSDALE AS ITS KNOWN IN WIGAN) IS IN LIVERPOOL ? SCOUSERS WI A WIGGIN POSTCODE - HA HA, NOW THAT MUST REALLY WIND UP YOU DIRTY THIEVIN SCUMBAGS.

Take it easy matey, they guy you are arguing with is actually an Ashtonian with a prejudice against Wigan and Wiganers, don't stoop to his level by slagging off Skelmersdale and try to keep civilized (I know it may be difficult because the guy you are arguing with is acting like an idiot) but we don't want this discussion forum locked by an admin.

Getting back to what our friend 'Mr 80.192.242.187' said in the following quote:-

"After asking a couple of 'connected' people, I can confirm that, as far as they know, the nearest place to Wigan that Richard Ashcroft has ever lived is Orrell (near to the station in the village). He went there from Skelmersdale. Wigan may be the 'nearest town', but neither place is 'in' Wigan"

The connected people he asked are from the richard ashcroft forum

The actual discussion is here:-

http://forums.richardashcroft.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461

Mr 80.192.242.187 is Jemmy and the only person to mention that Richard Ashcroft is from Skelmersdale is himself, people have replied with the fact that he grew up in upholland in Wigan. Upholland is NOT is Skelmersdale. Reading the thread further they are saying he is from Wigan.

Quite frankly this guy has vandalised the Wigan page many times now and has received warnings, it's about time he was banned because his attitude stinks and it is quite clear that he is annoying other people too.

82.33.171.111 12:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation of name

How is the name "Wigan" pronounced? For better or worse, as an American, I really don't have much of a clue about British place names... I suppose it cuts both ways. Maybe articles on geographical topics can include a pronunciation guide as a matter of course. Regards, 207.174.201.18 03:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Wig-an Nessuno834 05:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Or if you come from Wigan, 'Wig-in' Hindleyite 20:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you'd give us an example of how an American would pronounce 'Wigan' ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 21:13, 19 October 2006.

Pool to short

can anyone provide a reference for the pool being too short? It has a real air of Urban myth about it. I have heard this story myself but frankly I doubt it. If no-one can come up with a reference I'll delete it soon. Of course it may have failed to meet IOC criteria for all sort of other reasons.--NHSavage 07:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Why doesn't this article mention their fondness for pies? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.135.66.126 (talk • contribs) 09:23, 17 September 2006.

The 'Pies' story is a myth, only kept alive by Wigan people because they know no better. Most of them don't know the origin of the pies story. It's nothing to do with actual pies, either. It's that sad. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 1 November 2006.

Wigan people tend to think myth and rumour is true. This is because most of them have never left Wigan in their lives and are poorly educated. The more they are told these stories, the more the rumour gets passed around. It's a shame, really, for the children in the town, because their teachers often use the information put on sites like this for educational purposes, therefore the children are given information which is not fact, just hearsay.

LEIGH IS NOT WIGAN. NEVER HAS BEEN and NEVER WILL BE. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 80.195.142.222.

rewording

This edit introduced the following errors:

'Borough of Wigan' - scare quotes are not required for districts, it suggests they do not exist
metropolitan county changed to Administrative Area - aside from the inappropriate use of capitals it is a term that has never been used for that county, in any context. Mrsteviec 20:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The Borough of Wigan is in the Greater Manchester area, however, Greater Manchester Administrative Body does not exist. All Greater Manchester is in Lancashire County. Wigan is a town 'in' Wigan Borough, 'in' Greater Manchester, 'in' Lancashire County, the same as New York is a City 'in' New York State. Buffalo and Rochester are in New York State but they aren't New York. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) .

Question: Why is it that some young person in America, having been made an administrator on Wikipedia, suddenly becomes more knowledgeable about places in England than people who have lived their entire life in those places? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .

Metropolitan Borough of Wigan

Why not read a much better merged article at Metropolitan Borough of Wigan Gosh it even has some references! ;-) Generic Character 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Twinning

Is it the metropolitan borough that is twinned rather than the town? MRSC • Talk 10:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It is. This needs moving. Morwen - Talk 10:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Moved. MRSC • Talk 10:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Ask any Wiganer, 'Name the French town which is twinned with Wigan'?, and they won't have a clue. That, in itself, shows the actual worth of 'twinning'.

Suburbs

The point about the ONS and the Wigan Urban area should be left with the aras described as 'suburbs'. The majority of people who work in the town centre live in these areas and commute into the town centre for work. These areas are not seen as seperate towns/villages. Trafford in Manchester is seen as a suburb of Manchester not a seperate place (example). I live in Wigan so am trying to give the perspective as seen by thoses who live in the the area. When asked by someone 'where do you live' you say 'Wigan', not Ince, Orrell, Standish etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Man2 (talk • contribs)

Trafford is not 'in' Manchester. Ince, Orrell and Standish are not 'in' Wigan. They are seperate places. They are not suburbs of Wigan. (jimmy h)

(from User_talk:Man2)

Can you provide some form of citation for the claims that the areas near Wigan are suburbs, and not nearby towns? The people over at Talk:List of English cities by population would claim that the ONS evidence is in itself proof that these areas are not suburbs.

this document by Wigan Metropolitan Borough Council identifies a "town centre" at Standish and at Pemberton. Having a town centre is not generally a characteristic of a suburb, so this indicates that to me that they are better analysed as several towns, of which Wigan is the largest and most well-known, forming a small conurbation.

The point about Wigan's local sphere influence is accepted. I don't think answering "where do you come from" from outsiders really is the end of it. Bear in mind that 'suburb' can be taken as a derogatory or demeaning term. Morwen - Talk 16:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore this document by WMBC outright says that "Standish is not a suburb of Wigan"

To Put It Politely

We need a local expert, who can be TRUSTED to give the facts and not His or Her POV. this is turning out to be urgently needed as i have had to have a revert war with an unsigned user about facts in this article. Can someone oblige please! Random articles 22:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Suburbs of Wigan are as follows : Swinley - Springfield - Beech Hill - Standish Lower Ground - Haigh - Whelley - Scholes - Poolstock. Pemberton is an adjacent town to Wigan, but is now connected. Other towns, some close, others not so close, to Wigan are as follows : Ince - Hindley - Standish - Ashton in Makerfield - Golborne - Leigh - Atherton - Tyldesley, each of these small towns also have their suburbs. The Borough was formed and Wigan (one of the towns in the borough) gave it's name to that borough. However, each individual town/village, some historical, others relatively new, was not stripped of it's name, they all still exist. The fact that administrative control has been taken over by one large authority should not detract from their identities. Those of you in America, obviously a very large country, who care to look at Wigan and surrounding towns on Google Satellite you will notice the clear outline of each town and it's adjoining 'suburbs'.

Government statement

I'm moving this text here from the main article because it really interrupted the flow of the article and probably doesn't belong in the heading.

Government Statement. .......

'Note that the LGA 1972 did not do anything to the historic Counties of Britain. It only abolished the administrative counties and county boroughs. The Government was (and still is) happy to confirm that the Counties themselves were unaffected...'

"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties) --Wafulz 02:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, is misquote and misattribution. Morwen - Talk 09:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Greater Manchester Authority was disbanded in 1986. Also, Why has the true distance from Manchester been deleted and why delete the distance from Liverpool. It is a fact that Liverpool has played an important part in the history of Wigan re. cotton supplies and trade and was even linked to Wigan by the Leeds/Liverpool canal for that purpose. Also, it is a true historical fact that the Wigan Parish is part of Liverpool Diocese. Why deny fact?

Above point

I believe the point regarding Wigan as a part of the Liverpool Diocese should be include, (maybe in the civic history section). The 'true' distance of Wigan from Manchester is 18 miles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs)

Saying "historically in the Diocese of Liverpool" is problematic: because the Diocese of Liverpool was only formed in 1880: prior to then it had been part of the Diocese of Chester. The language used is strange as well: is "Head Parish" Anglican jargon? Because I can't find any evidence of that. Anyway, why should we give one particular religion's hierachy prominence? Morwen - Talk 09:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Before Chester it was in the Diocese of Lichfield. Anglican 'jargon' can be expected to be found in an 'Anglican' country. The 'Church of England' is the 'Head' Church in this country, The Queen being the Head of that Church.

Distance, point to point, Wigan to Manchester 16.6 miles, Wigan to Liverpool 16.8 miles. By road, shortest route, Wigan to Manchester 23.4 miles, Wigan to Liverpool 21.6 miles. Source: Ordnance Survey/Google Maps/my van's mileometer.

Can you provide evidence for the "head parish" usage. I can find no evidence on the internet for the term being used in this way. Morwen - Talk 10:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The word more commonly used is 'principal' or 'mother'. They have the same meaning as 'head'. Wigan 'All Saints' Parish regards itself as being the 'mother' in the Wigan area of 30 different parishes, the others being 'daughters' !?!?. (ref: Wigan Parish All Saints). In Bryn, 'Holy Trinity' Parish was made the 'principal' one, of the Ashton in Makerfield area including Haydock, in 1845. It's all to do with power, land and money. A way for the aristocracy to keep themselves in high positions, without the need to kill people, or work. (re: British History Online/ashton in makerfield). (ps. I have no religious interest and have, therefore, no bias)

Circular Editing

This article is having the same edits added/removed/readded and so on and so forth. I know not who is correct but as this is coming from a large number of anon users, should this article be considered for locking to all but registered users? Regan123 20:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Signing Articles / Language

Please can everyone remember to sign their contributions - underneath where you write the edit summary it has a clickable to do it. The discussion is getting difficult to understand as to who is saying what. I have added substitute signatures as best I can.

Also, please don't remove comments from the talk page and don't use words like "Plonker". Always assume good faith.

Thanks, Regan123 23:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The Verve/Winstanley College

Found this on the Wigan MBC website : http://www.wigan.gov.uk/pub/council/25facts/25things-wigan.pdf At the bottom left of page 2 is the follwing:

"Before they split in 1999, Wigan band The Verve became the town’s most famous musical export since George Formby. They were all from the Wigan area and met while at Winstanley College, a sixth form centre on the outskirts of town.. Singer Richard Ashcroft is now pursuing a successful solo career."

This clearly states that the Verve were form Wigan and that Winstanley College is on the 'outskirts' of the town (therefore in Wigan).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs).

Wigan MBC will say that. They tell people all sorts of lies. The 'history shop' is full of lies too, they are a bunch of frauds, putting out false information. Winstanley College is on the 'outskirts' of Wigan, but it isn't 'in' Wigan. It's across the border. It's 'in' Orrell actually, look at the Orrell 'ward boundaries' on the Governments National Statistics. You say 'they were all from the Wigan area', well, thats a false claim for a start, because Nick McCabe is from the St.Helens area, went to the same school as me and he says that "None of us are from Wigan, that's just a myth". Myths are what Wigan MBC are good at. Skelmersdale can't be regarded as being in the Wigan area either, and that's where Ashcroft is from.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

- Your right Nick McCabe was from the St. Helens area. I didnt say they were all from the Wigan area, Wigan MBC did. I also dont think that anyone would suggest that Skelmersdale was in Wigan, it is clearly a town with its own identity and if Ashcroft lived there then yes he was from Skelmersdale, however if he was born in Billinge Hospital he is originally from Wigan, he should therefore be included in both areas 'notable people'. If Wigan MBC say that Orrell is 'in Wigan' and 99.9% of people in Wigan say Orrell (and Pemberton and Ince etc etc) are 'in Wigan' (which they do), then it should described as 'in Wigan'. You appear to have hostility towards Wigan MBC and I detect a slight 'agenda' in your comments. If im wrong about this I sincerely apologise, but you must accept offical citations.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs).

- You're not wrong mate about his hostilities towards Wigan and Wiganers in general, he's an Ashtonian and seems to have a grudge for some strange reason, if you look above I have been arguing (sorry, discussing) with him about these things in the section headed "Richard Ashcroft et al" it really makes an interesting read and his prejudices can be seen there too. I do like his sense of humour though, I just wish he could use it to more positive effect 82.33.171.111 22:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

If Orrell's not in Wigan somebody better tell Wish FM, St Peters High School, Orrell Balti House, Abbey Gabby High and all the other businesses and schools in the area as they all have the address, "Orrell, Wigan, Greater Manchester". Not "Orrell Nr Wigan", "Orrell Village Near Wigan", "Orrell just outside Wigan", "Orrell that place in Wigan...but not really", "Orrell x amount of miles from Wigan" or anything else. Or alternatively next time you go in one of the shops say "dear me ive been looking all over the town centre for this shop....I thought your address said you are in Wigan.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs).