User talk:BessieMaelstrom/RAAW

'Request an article' Wizard: sketching out

Paging Sdkb & Ghost In The Machine, and anyone else who would like to feed into this. From a discussion here about the lack of visibility of the Request an article invitation, Ghost proposed a Wizard to make that function more accessible. This is the sketching out of such a Wizard. I've started us off, and am tagging wherever I'm just sharing my own thoughts on a thing. (Feel free to lift this whole thing and put it somewhere else if that's useful.) -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 11:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Why is it important that Wikipedia have an article on this topic?

@BessieMaelstrom: thanks for starting this! One thing I think might be useful is a field just asking "why is it important that Wikipedia have an article on this topic?" This wouldn't be so much for establishing notability as offering the requester a chance to make their case as to why it's worth editors' time to make it. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:52, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Absolutely. It will help people to consider not only the thing they are proposing, but also what Wikipedia is. Also, thanks for moving this to the Talk page. I've brought the other sections here too, where I'd started talking about them, and left the main page blank for us to sketch out the shape of it as we go. Have added the new question to the top. I feel it could be useful to give a sentence or two of examples for how one might answer that initial question. It could certainly say that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, which means it aims to be a summary of knowledge. Maybe we could be a bit more helpful, and break it down? Something like: "In what field of knowledge does your topic lie, and what is its significance within that field?" -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 21:58, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Does your proposed subject already exist here?

• Is it fair to say that most things are either already mentioned here somewhere, or that several of their subject family trees are here but don't quite reach them yet? I wonder if this could be "Where does that thing currently / nearly exist here?" Maybe this is a multi-button option:

• it's already within other articles to the extent that it really ought to have its own one
• it isn't in any existing articles but there are some appropriate places where it could be
• it isn't in any existing articles because it hasn't yet reached enough of that kind of notability. (Where do we describe how to determine that? Presume it's the same kind of WP:V but is there a lesser requirement?) -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 11:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

We'll want a search box here that opens in a new window, so it doesn't take the user away from the wizard. The search should also include draftspace, since if there's already a draft on the topic, they'll want to know. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Agree. Shall we start putting these things into the sketch? Then we could add branching options. I'm interested in seeing if this Wizard can be a useful conduit for those who might add their Topic to an existing article instead of requesting a new one. If I think of my own field of theatre writing: a play that has no article of its own could well be placed in the article of the playwright, and that kind of thing must be true in other fields? Branching off those questions will continue to lead the proposer down a useful path of 'why does it belong?', I think. --BessieMaelstrom (talk) 23:22, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Simple understanding of WP:N

• Notable vs Included vs Belonging. Although we pay due regard to the logical processes, we pay scant regard to the desire to be included where we feel we already belong, and the notion of encyclopedic knowledge does little to disuade us that our missing subjects are part of what constitutes a comprehensive knowledge in those areas. WP:WHATISTOBEDONE says:

  When you wonder what should or should not be in an article, ask yourself what a reader would expect to find under the same heading in an encyclopedia.

  The problem is, very few people own a hard copy encyclopedia these days. In fact, many people likely consider Wikipedia itself to be what an encyclopedia is, and further, expect to find themselves or their thing in it. This creates an awkward circle of self-determination that is founded on wanting our thing to be included where we feel we belong. For all that we have multiple explanations around this, including what Wikipedia is not, I've yet to see anywhere that says "Just because your thing is not in here yet, doesn't mean it isn't part of its family trees out there in the world". Does that make sense? And is there a simple way we could address that here? -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 11:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

We can potentially borrow language from Help:Introduction to editing with Wiki Markup/5. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Simple understanding of WP:V

• I'm not sure how much this is needed. Notability applies to the subject whereas verifiability applies to information, and if you're just requesting an article, you're not actually adding information on it. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:44, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Choose topic

• Ref the lists of requested articles that just sit there forever: with a few more layers, I think this option could lead people down paths where their subject belongs in an existing article. We don't do nearly enough emphasising that right now, but I suspect that a lot of the proposed subjects could actually be included in that way - and then we are encouraging actual editing, too. -- BessieMaelstrom (talk) 11:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Description

• (comment here)

Links to sources

• (comment here)

Telling pertinent Wikipedia projects about your request?

• (comment here)