Talk:Gundagai

Massacres and the Dog on the Tuckerbox

Moved the following from history, where I will copy edit there. Additions from IPs 203.54.186.125 and 203.54.186.125 on 5, 6 and 17 June 2006.

Gundagai is known for an image of a dog on a box. This symbolism is more recently based on a poem about a bullock waggon stuck in the mud near Gundagai pre gazettal of Gundagai as a town in 1838. This bullock waggon carried a load of flour for the European settlers. The flour had to come from the mill at Goulburn. There was a severe drought happening. The flour on the bogged bullock wagon was rifled while the bullock driver was in the nearby hotel and subsequently, the remaining flour was laced with arsenic. More flour was taken from the waggon by Aboriginal people with the end result being there were many deaths. The massacre was heard about in Sydney and was investigated, but no one was able to be held to account. For many years the event was told and retold and a dog figure, representing an aspect of Australian Aboriginal lore, was placed on a stick at the Nine Mile near where the massacre happened. A photo exists of this earlier Dog monument. The story was passed down among long-time Gundagai residents and is still spoken about in Gundagai today but for many years when it was mentioned, people were told not to speak about it. The story was also retold in a popular Australian poem by Jack Moses but from a different, perhaps less challenging, perspective which explained the lingering tale that just would not go away. The known disparity between, and debate about, whether the event happened at the Five Mile or Nine Mile is to do with this. There are archival records documentating this iconic and significant Australian cultural heritage. The Gundagai incident is independent of the Benalla one. The Benalla massacre (if it is the 'Faithfull Massacre)was the one that led to Gundagai being gazetted. I have copies of the original documents of the line of communication being put through to Melbourne after the Faithfull Massacre. The Coolac Massacre story is still well known in Gundagai but not spoken about publically. There is no original research required for the Coolac Massacre as that it happened has never been forgotten in this town. The first poems about the massacre appeared in the 1850s. The monument to the massacre was built in 1932 and that monument is identical to a major Indigenous Ancestral feature. The Gundagai Independent in about October 2005 has some content. The Coolac massacre is currently part of not yet completed archaeological surveying in that area as reported online on ABC News. NSW National Parks have been notified of where the massacre remains were put. This burial area from the 1830s was previously known to National Parks. NSWNP do not release all information they hold. The massacre is spoken of in Gundagai's verse and song, the 'Dog' being 'first man' in Aboriginal culture. There are other supporting documents such as Tindale's letters and others. ({{fact}}<!--very interesting but need some sources please; note this reads very much like an incident near present day Benalla on 11 April 1838 - were there two or is there confusion?-->(citation requested and comment inserted by AYArktos) There were many many massacres of Indigenous people in Australia. I am not Indigenous. My family have lived at Gundagai since the 1840s which is not long after the massacre happened.

--A Y Arktos\^talk 20:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Note citations have been requested. Doesn't mean I don't believe it. It is Wikipedia policy though that things are Verifiable.--A Y Arktos\^talk 20:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The RTA content you note is 2004 content so out of date. This is 2006. There have been two new lots of archs since then.

Remove the notes re Coolac as its better not here. Google can continue on in lah lah land.

That RTA stuff below is so out of date its ridiculous. Given the site of the massacre wasnt known till this year yet you put up stuff that talks about what was known in 2004 shows the brick wall here.

THIS IS 2006, NOT 2004 - dont quote 2004 content when its about an ongoing investigative process that has progressed to 2006.

Also, I said previously that what you call the Benalla Massacre is not that. Its real name is the Faithful Massacre. There was no 'Benalla' when that massacre happened. NO the Faithfull Massacre is NOT the Coolac/Gundagai massacre. There weree several hundred miles between the two massacres. HOWEVER, Gundagai was gazetted as a township after the Faithfull Massacre. This was done to put an 'official' presence in these rural areas as the ungoverned pioneers were murdering the Aboriginal people and it was so bad, it had to stop. The Gundagai/Coolac Massacre is the most significant Indigneous Massacre in Australia's history which is why it has been covered up. Gudnagai is the capital of Indigneous culture and this was dismantled at invasion and after so that invasion was successful. I have two uni degrees and am doign another. This is not a fly by night entry. I do not know the skill level of whomever is editing this entry. Its best the entry is removed.

• So far I am not finding anything on the web about this massacre

• • http://www.cat.org.au/forgottenwar/narrandera.html mentions the Wiradjuri wars but not this incident.
  • http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructionmaintenance/downloads/coolac_environreview.pdf discusses a massacre near coolac but in the following terms: "A local resident provided information about the possibility of an Aboriginal massacre site occurring in the general area between Mingay and Pettit. The reliability and exact location of the massacre site has yet to be determined, however, one unconfirmed suggestion is that it is close to Muttama Creek, or in general proximity of the current highway alignment. As the reliability of the information and definite location of the site could not verified,..."

Given the recent RTA environmental review at Coolac has failed to turn anything up, I am inclined to remove the reference as not meeting WP:V.--A Y Arktos\^talk 21:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)