Talk:Health and environmental effects of depleted uranium

See also: Talk:Depleted uranium/Archive 1, Talk:Depleted uranium/Archive 2, Talk:Depleted uranium/Archive 3, Talk:Depleted uranium/Archive 4

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The criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.

The policy

1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources. 2. Editors adding new information into an article should cite a reputable source for that information, otherwise it may be removed by any editor. 3. The obligation to provide a reputable source is on editors wishing to include information, not on those seeking to remove it.

This is posted to serve notice that as per the agreement at depleted uranium I will defend this article from any attempt to remove content that is properly referenced and verifiable as such. --DV8 2XL 17:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

DV8, it looks like this is your show - I am new to wikipedia, so I dont know how to fix it, but it seems the links are a bit off... Link #53 sends the reader to the DU battlefield effectiveness story (although a secondary source) and link #52, in the area of the text dealing with the battlefield effectiveness of US DU tanks, sends the hapless reader (me) to a medical text. 17:00 CST, 6 February 2006.

This is not 'my show' I posted the above to remind others that may edit here that someone will be watching and reverting any attempts to remove properly sourced statements. There is much in this topic that is contentious and the old Depleted uranium suffered several edit wars as one side or the other on this issue sought to get the upper hand. We all finaly came to an agreement and keeping this article to the rules of content that are inforce was part of it. --DV8 2XL 01:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Inclusion of FOIA

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the FOIA was considered original research. Ten Dead Chickens 20:27, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The FOIAR abstract is published by the Navy monthly; this one ended up in their September, 2005 abstract. --James S. 22:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

This still does not establish its relevance. Ten Dead Chickens 12:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Recent Edits

To clear a few things up: Sandia is "managed" by Lockheed, not funded. Thats like saying the cafeteria at work is "funded" by Aramark when they just run it.

Secondly, I went over the CDC tox profile for sulfur mustard, and once again, the only referecnes to birth defects in humans I found was statment that there was no information available, and all information on birth defects was via animal studies. Please provide a "specific" page in which you found the material.

Lastly, with respect to the Marshal Study, you put in the follwoing text:

but did not consider any reproductive or developmental toxicity, immuniological effects, or neurotoxicity.

All these issues were in fact considered in the report. Have you read it? Ten Dead Chickens 12:51, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course I have read it. Have you? Let me help you. In section 1.2 on "Scope," it claims to include a complete evaluation of both radiological and nonradiological hazards. However, Section 5.2 on p. 72, "Other Heavy Metal Effects," reads:

"Some evidence has been reported for the possibility of other chemical effects associated with uranium internalization.... Among the tested veterans, McDiarmid s team observed a statistically lower score in [a] neurocognitive test for veterans with high uranium concentrations in their urine....

However, the slight neurocognitive effects did not appear to affect normal functioning; and the measured effect appears to be declining

"Veteran, animal, and in vitro testing suggests that a few other chemically induced health effects are possible, such as reproductive effects and chemically induced cancers....

"However, epidemiological data for humans with exposure to elevated levels of uranium

particulate do not show an increase in health effects of any type, relative to the general population (refer to Appendix D). The evidence for other chemically induced DU effects is not, at present, well established."

"Uranium is also deposited in the kidney, liver, lymph nodes, and other organs in small quantities....

"Some evidence has been reported for other chemical effects associated with uranium internalization. In vitro studies suggest that DU can induce malignant transformations with frequencies similar to those observed with the nonradioactive heavy metal carcinogens, nickel and lead. Studies by Benson et al. on female rats with DU implants have shown that uranium can cross the placental barrier....

This finding, however, was disputed by the National Academy of Science, and the possible association of DU with prolactin levels was not found during McDiarmid’s 2000 reassessment. Furthermore, no excess health effects of any type have been observed from epidemiological studies for uranium workers

And that is the full extent of Marshal's discussion of reproductive, developmental, immunological, and neurological chemical toxicities, none of which are factored into the risk ratios at all. The only reproductive hazard computed is the strictly radiological one, which is very low because uranium isn't very radioactive. Reverting. --James S. 01:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

once again, please stop cherry picking pieces of information, without providing the conclusions. And, by your own admission Marshall does investigate reproductive or developmental toxicity, immuniological effects, and neurotoxicity, although not his conclusions may not be satsifactory to you, he has covered these issues, and your text says the exact opposit.

Plus, you have not explained the "Lockheed Funded", when it is just managed by Lockheed, and the CDC tox profile, which does not mention human studies on birth defects. Ten Dead Chickens 16:05, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Some fuel for the fire

Check out what GNC is selling: http://www.drugstore.com/qxp88904_333181_sespider/gnc/liquid_multi_colloidal_minerals.htm

They don't seem to be alone. I'm sure that it has as much uranium in it as a pinch of average topsoil, but the fact that they're able to market it as a health suppliment shows that Congress and the FDA are asleep at the wheel. Dr U 10:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Back into mediation?

Unless I can convince myself that "Dr U" who claims to be an M.D. can justify any of the edits he seems intent on, then I will ask for a return to mediation. ----James S. 07:07, 20 February 2006 (UTC)