Talk:List of wars involving Kazakhstan

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Nataev (talk | contribs) at 16:58, 11 April 2024 (→‎the title of the article: ce\). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Cuman-Kipchak Confederation

What is the relationship between the Kazakhs and this state? Foggy kub (talk) 17:20, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kazakhs are the only heirs of this state Qaznat (talk) 08:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coloring scheme used for tables

The color scheme of the tables in this article doesn't really seem to be in accordance with MOS:COLOR. Generally, the default coloring scheme for tables is more than sufficient for most Wikipedia articles and the majority of Wikipedia readers. Color shouldn't really be being used to express distinctions in meaning unless there is corresponding article content explaining what the different colors are supposed to mean. Using colors simply for decorative reasons probably should be avoided whenever possible. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:42, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Golden Horde, Gokturks, Kipchaks = historical Kazakh states, I want to know why they are being removed. All battles have sources, and all these states are in the history of Kazakhstan. Alasha khan (talk) 13:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the Cuman-Kipchaks, the Golden Horde, the Gokturks and the removal of the battles of the Kazakh Khanate, with sources

Golden Horde, Gokturks, Kipchaks = historical Kazakh states, I want to know why they are being removed. All battles have sources, and all these states are in the history of Kazakhstan. Alasha khan (talk) 13:55, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello colleague! Name at least one historical book, notes, or text where it is written that during the Turkic Khaganate there were Kazakhs. Lauriswift911 (talk) 16:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! The Turkic Khaganate is included in the history of Kazakhstan, and the ancestors of the current Kazakhs, like all Turkic peoples, lived there and fought, ruled. Aqnazar (talk) 16:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let me remind you that this article is about Kazakhstan and the Kazakh nation, which was formed in the 1400s, and there can be no talk of 600 years. Lauriswift911 (talk) 16:44, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

so the Kazakhs appeared during the time of the Saks, but as a nation, like the Kyrgyz, they formed in the 14th century, for example, the Kyrgyz had battles from BC, although they appeared in the 14th century Aqnazar (talk) 17:01, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Send sources that say that during the Turkic Khaganate there were Kazakhs. Lauriswift911 (talk) 17:09, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, you lost the argument because you blocked me in the telegram Aqnazar (talk) 17:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here we are discussing the connection of the Kazakhs with the Turkic Khaganate. Personal relationships will not be clarified here. Lauriswift911 (talk) 18:08, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2023

Aqnazar (talk) 15:05, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Kazakh-Kyrgyz war of 1760-1779, the Kazakhs did not lose in this war, give permission to edit Aqnazar (talk) 15:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:08, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I want to fix “Kyrgyz campaigns (1760-1779)”. Because the Kazakhs won there, not the Kyrgyz. I can show sources. Alasha khan (talk) 15:45, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kyrgyz campaigns (1760-1779)

I want to change the outcome of this campaign. Since the Kyrgyz lost this war, capitulated, gave up half of their lands, I can provide sources. Alasha khan (talk) 15:54, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source: http://bibliotekar.kz/istorija-kazahstana-za-8-klass-hviii-v-1/6-kazahsko-kyrgyzskie-otnoshenija.html Alasha khan (talk) 16:05, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source: https://www.academia.edu/33745256/ОСВЕЩЕНИЕ_ВОПРОСОВ_КАЗАХСКО_КЫРГЫЗСКИХ_ОТНОШЕНИЙ_ВО_ВТОРОЙ_ПОЛОВИНЕ_ХVIII_В_И_РОЛЬ_АБЫЛАЙ_ХАНА_В_КЫРГЫЗСТАНСКОЙ_ИСТОРИОГРАФИИ Alasha khan (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Gol-Zarriun

Battle of Gol Zarriun was a Sasanian Persian and Göktürk alliance and victory, you can see it also in the Wikipedia page of Hephtalite-Sasanian Wars Abtiinn (talk) 08:21, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kazakh massacres(1771)

Hello, I want this battle to stop being added to the article, since it does not exist at all. There is no battle with that name. Wikipedia even deleted the article about it. There are also no sources, even if there are some that are not authoritative. Alasha khan (talk) 16:26, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism (removal of all battles from the site)

Restore all battles! Alasha khan (talk) 08:11, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fake war

I am not entirely sure on the existance of the "invasion of Northern Kazakhstan" in 2000-2001. I have never heard of it and it lacks a citation. VioletEpaulettes (talk) 22:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up

@Онеми: The article title very clearly states this is a list of wars. If you restore content, please make sure it has a reference that indicates you are adding a "war".

If you wish to have a complete list of military events, you could create an Outline of Kazak military history, which can be structured to accommodate the events you wish to include, and would be useful.

I would be happy to help you create such an article, as I have done in the past.  // Timothy :: talk  14:18, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Turkic Khaganate

re: List of wars involving Kazakhstan#Turkic Khaganate (552-603)

There are three entries under Turkic Khaganate for Perso-Turkic Wars, there are no sources showing how Kazak's were involved in these wars. Events occurred in this Khaganate that did not involve the Kazaks. Sources are needed to show they actually were a part of the wars.

Cumania

There are several entries related to Cumania. Kazak's were subjects of this empire, but the entries need sources for how the Kazak's were involved in the events. Events occurred in Cumania that did not involve the Kazaks.

I have also included reasons in the individual cn tags I placed in the section.

Kazakh Khanate

Same problems as above. Unsourced entries and entries not meeting WP:LISTCRITERA.  // Timothy :: talk  02:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the title of the article

will change the title of the article from "List of wars involving Kazakhstan " on "List of wars, uprisings and battles involving Kazakhstan" Онеми (talk) 14:35, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: If you want to create a properly sourced article, (read WP:ARTICLETITLE to learn how to correctly name the article) you can propose that. This article is a list of wars.  // Timothy :: talk  15:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FPSTurkey
Please resolve our dispute. Do what you think is necessary. Онеми (talk) 15:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're pinging a user who has been blocked for 4 years. — Czello (music) 15:35, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I didn't notice that it was blocked. Онеми (talk) 15:37, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: @Онеми:, I don't know why you didn't take my suggestion on 11 February 2024 above about creating another article, but I have done so. See Outline of Kazak military history. Read the list criteria in the lede. It is for English Wikipedia articles, and the entries need to either have wikilinked articles with sources about Kazak military involvement, or the entry needs references sourcing Kazak military involvement. You can look at Outline of Pakistan military history for an example.
I will gladly answer any questions you have in developing the above article, but content needs to meet the WP:LISTCRITERIA, be properly sourced WP:RS and WP:V verifiable showing Kazak military involvement. To be absolutely clear: entries need English Wikipedia articles with sources or you need to provide a verifiable reliable source for the entry.  // Timothy :: talk  23:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
thanks my question. Is it possible to arrange your article so that it has a table? I can make a table. But won't it be like a carbon copy? Онеми (talk) 03:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reply: Yes, tables can be used, but consider if you really think this is the best way to format the article. Normally tables are best used for tabular data and an outline will be much more than a carbon copy of a list.
Think of an outline as sort of a topical "table of contents" for a subject. It gives the reader a summary of the articles available on a subject. The other two types of navigation articles are Indexes which are alphabetical listings of articles in a subject area (eg: Index of articles related to the Russian Revolution and Civil War) and timelines which are chronological listings. Timelines and Outlines will have more context and detail than indexes. Along with lists these make up the Wikipedia navigation system.
One of the advantages of an outline is that you can add context and detail for the reader that would not fit well into a table. See this List of wars involving Poland#Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth (1569–1795) section (I am cleaning up this article as well) and look at the results column, you can see how much detail editors have tried to provide and the column heights become very large. This makes it harder to read, especially for visually disabled users and those on small mobile devices. Adding more table columns would only make this problem worse.
Compare with Outline of Pakistan military history#Indo-Pakistani war of 1947–1948 this entry, using columns and paragraphs instead of tables allows for more context and detail for the reader. You don't want to add too much detail, this is only a summary to give the reader an idea of what the entry is about. See WP:SUMMARYSTYLE.
Its also much easier to edit, tables can be difficult, especially if they have a lot of information.
Some other examples of outlines I've worked on are: Outline of the Greek genocide, Outline of Genocide studies, Outline of the Israel–Hamas war, Outline of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Outline of Slavic history and culture, Outline of the Beatles, Outline of whisky.
I will also work on wikilinking the outline to other articles, this will help it get readers interested in the subject to the page by integrating the subject into Wikipedias navigation system.
As you probably know, there is not a lot of content on Kazakhstan, but I was still surprised at how few articles exist and the ones that do are (in general) poor sourced. You have valuable language skills that will help English Wikipedia needs, but it will only be useful once you are familar with our guidelines and policies. I hope you continue working in this area. Just remember: Always use sources and the sources need to show how Kazaks were involved, not just that they were part of an empire involved in a conflict. The higher the quality of sources, from academic publishers, the better the article will be. And if you come across English language (including translations) sources, consider adding them to Bibliography of the history of Central Asia.
Be sure to read WP:RS and WP:NPOV, and Wikipedia:Outlines.  // Timothy :: talk  05:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This entry is something! Just like an earlier version of the list of wars involving Kyrgyzstan, it contains irrelevant, misleading, unsourced, and WP:OR content. The entry claims to list "wars involving Republic of Kazakhstan [sic], Kazakh [sic] and the predecessor states of Kazakhstan to the present day." Why call it "List of wars involving Kazakhstan" if it is going to list any conflict, such as ethnic strife within the territory of one country (Kazakh–Russian ethnic conflicts) or a foreign conflict where four Kazakh citizens were wounded (Iraq War)? And the latter is listed as a "victory" for Kazakhstan! And how can the fact that a few ethnic Kazakhs joined the Russians in the Khivan campaign of 1873 be listed as a "victory" for Kazakhstan?
Timothy, I second what you wrote above about the importance of WP:RS and WP:V. However, I'm not sure showing "how Kazaks were involved" is sufficient grounds to justify the inclusion of a conflict in this list. The list should be free from WP:OR. Currently it isn't. Instead, it contains numerous unsourced and unlinked claims about various conflicts (such as "Kazakh-Kalmyk War", "Haqnazar Khan's Bukhara campaigns", "Haqnazar's campaign against Dervesh Khan", "Haqnazar's War against Siberia", etc.), some of which are most likely fabricated.
It seems that in lists involving a certain country users with nationalistic views are striving hard to portray a particular ethnic group to which they belong as undefeatable warriors. That's why in this one they've listed even the sporadic ethnic conflicts between Russians and Kazakhs as a "victory" for Kazakhstan. And what does the Civil War in Tajikistan have to do with Kazakhstan? And so on.
Finally, note that at least 40 percent of the current version of this list was authored by Qaznat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (and his sock Qaznatt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)), who has been indefinitely blocked here on enwiki -- and for good reason. Nataev talk 16:53, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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