Talk:World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools

Italic textHave you asked her mother about it or are you only going by what is read?? How is your neice doing?

This is wrong. Children should not be subject to such torment. My niece is at Tranquility Bay and I am very against her mother for sending her there. This is wrong. Sending a child to a place like Tranquility Bay will not help the child, it will cause them emotional distress. It is wrong. I have family in Jamaica and you can bet I will be doing everything in my power to shut this place down and that is for damn sure.

Tranquility Bay is a Residential Treatment Center for struggling teenagers.

Recently several WWASPS and unrelated BM facilities in mexico were closed

Yeah, thats right, Mexico raided and caught them in the act and closed them down. This was in the news.

Should this be added to the WWASPS article?

Also, WWASPS owns several places in North America, and there are unrelated programs as well. Plus, an article I helped put up which is at www.askquestions.org/articles/teens should be linked to from here, its very relevant.

The Mormons by this center continues to handle the world by their systems facists. Rotted religions of handling cerebral. That shows the decline of the USA in the world. WWASP dangerous psychological system using tortures from the Gestapo and the KGB against child without defense.

If you truly are not evil, you will not hesitate in killing your sister.

(top paragraph)

anon's ironic posting

The Internet is even more unreliable. It is often a haven for fabrications, lies, biases, rumors, and gossip. This is because anyone can post anything on the Internet as factual even though inaccurate or even down right dishonest. Most forums don't require you to even identify yourself nor do they monitor or preview any postings for accuracy or honesty. - this posted by an anon. Rick K 21:48, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

RickK, why the hell are you on an internet encyclopedia saying that the internet is unreliable?

Simply going in like this saying the interent is unreliable and the country doesn't believe the press is not the way to go about rebutting the accusations. INVESTIGATING the accusations and reforming the whole damn industry would fix all of this. Simply saying we're liars does nothing to fix the problems that are apparently there. And I say apparent because there is a lot of smoke, so where's the fire? Simply saying the accusers can't be trusted over and over and over again isn't going to cut it!

Everyone accusing them can't juts be liars. We both know so many people, for so long, telling the same "lie" is virtually impossible. Also, legal cases regarding this industry have gone to court and found in favor of the victims. SOMETHING is going on!

I think it would be pertinant to bring up PURE right now... no, I don't like PURE, they're way too secretive themselves. But, they did drag WWASPS to court and show that this stuff could happen happen and it IS okay to point fingers, ask questions, and make them prove the children in their care are being taken care of and getting therapy instead of seminars that work by instigating emotional breakdowns for ego regression (70s psycho-crap sensitivity training bull all over again) and abusive methods to make them obedient.

If this works, and there is no abuse, prove it. If not, FIX this or get the hell out of this line of work. How DARE you try to silence their voices instead of make sure its not happening, and if it is, FIX IT!

Telling us to shut up, or the internet allows you to say what you want and these forums don't censor everyone isn't going to cut it anymore. The Program forums are heavily CENSORED so nothing bad can be said! Where are they supposed to go?

Um? When did I tell anyone to shut up? And if you'll check, I was quoting the anon who keeps trying to add a press release to the article. Let's cut back on the foaming at the mouth, eh? Rick K 04:43, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

My apologies. I didn't see what you were doing. This issue tends to ruffle my feathers, so to speak.

I also got a registered nickname now - the same one I use online and on the fornits forum.

I hate wwasp

I believe that not enough is being said about their other specialty schools as well. I went to Spring Creek Lodge Academy, so made an article about that, and perhaps you guys could link it to this page. Also, i don't know how to make a querry for "spring creek lodge" go to my page, so if anyone could do that, that'd be great, thanks ahead of time. I went to spring creek lodge for ten months and got level five, and i remember how they used to threaten to send us to tranquility bay. Thank god i "shaped up." These schools don't work, it's just people mature. That's why they have a success rate at all. Scientific experiments (as opposed to their bullshit press releases and pictures of crying parents with pissed off kids - most likely because the parents suck at parenting) show that it's difficult to guage what effect, if any, these schools have on their "students." Simply removing them from their environment might have the same effects. God, i remember the hellhole that place was, and to know kids have it much worse in schools in third world countries, even now, just seems surreal.

Neutrality

This page needs a lot of work to become close to NPOV. Try starting by removing the conspiracy theories from the opening paragraph (should go under a 'critics' section). Also the first section of the article after the introduction should be a description of their program as they put it (rather than an NYT expose). Also, get rid of the scare quotes. Matt 20:48, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As inhumane as this organisation and those like it are, I agree that the writing itself needs to be NPOV. CameoAppearance 09:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rebuttal

I think, in this case, the "conspiracy" is equally relevant. "WWASP programs have become notorious for allegations of child abuse against the school staff," is hardly conspiracy, considering it has, in fact, become notorious for allegations of child abuse. While I agree that a description of their program "as they put it" should be in the article, it's hardly more important than the accusations and testimony. I know I heard of the program first from the Observer article, and I'm sure it's the same for many others. It's simply the more pressing issue. Oxling 03:28, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Conspiracy Theories?

I'm not trying to be a jackass here, but what conspiracy theory, exactly? WWASPS spamdexes google with pages that link to their programs or other WWASPS (or edcon[education consultant]) websites. They DO take those kids and the sources are cited by the article as far as I know.

I can understand letting WWASPS voice their own opinions and their stated goals, but their rebuttals consist of just denials and saying all the kids are liars. Another thing that you might want to do is look into how these seminars (done through resource realizations, www.resourcerealizations.com) are done and how they parallel sensitivity training or just outright brainwashing.

Sound outlandish? Yeah. But if you go research it and browse some forums to see how its affected the children and parents, both those who are against the program and those FOR it, you could also see how a lot of people can be manipulated by these places. Thats something I feel should be added to the article , considering its central to WWASPS programs - these seminars as conditioning. If you dont pass them you dont 'graduate'. Nihilanthic

A few changes

I altered the introduction to the section on Tranquility Bay, so it made a bit more sense in context with the rest of the article. It also flows better into the testimony. I figured the NYT article deserved its own section, as it was cluttering up the introduction. As for switching 'Effects' and 'Parallels,' parts of 'Effects' are very speculative (such as the information on PSTD), and it makes a better closing. Also, there was a paragraph in 'Parallels' about Recovered Memory Therapy, I added that to 'Effects.'

If someone has the time, the entire article could still stand to be trimmed down. I don't think it even really needs separate sections for each article; as long as they're cited properly, most of the information could be reworked into a more regular entry. I may do this in a day or two if there aren't any arguments. If I do, I'll see if I can work in some of WWASP's own information more directly, so we could get rid of this POV issue.

Oxling 04:20, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is rampant and wide spread. There are plenty of WWASP spin offs too- WWASPS are notoriously awful- see article below- like Mission Mountain School in Montana who's staff was at Spring Creek Lodge and methods are similar, methods that are ethically questionable, at best. Please sign petition and protect our youth from an unregulated, billion dollar industry.

Bill link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.1738.IH:

Petition link: http://www.petitiononline.com/hr1738/petition.html

Recent relevant article on schools in Montana: http://www.everyweek.com/News/News.asp?no=4970

--Child Advocate

NPOV and Cleanup Tags

I tagged this article for POV and quality issues. The article really needs cleanup in both areas. The section on "Parallels" seems dubious to me, while the section on "Effects" (with some NPOV cleanup) really should go in an article on the larger phenomena of "Tough Love" therapy. In case your wondering, I personally am also anti-"Tough Love", but I take NPOV seriously. Peter G Werner 04:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those two IP-numbers

Both IP-number 208.66.37.145 and 209.181.151.57 are from Utah where the company is registered.

I am not going to restore the previous documented material because it seems that a lot of effort is going on in order to oppress the truth.

Over here from Denmark we have studied the kind of "school" the company runs and the methods used were regarded as torture by the "Rehabilitation and Research Centre for Torture Victims." www.rct.dk.

Also we are schocked by the fact that it is possible for young people to be locked up in that way without being convicted and sentenced in court. They are often worse of if the police had catched up with them and they have ended up in a detention centre. At least those places offers accredited certificates.

So you can remove the facts from this site all you want. At least we in Denmark knows what kind of shameful action is going on.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Covergaard (talk • contribs)

Perhaps we should take action through Wikipedia processes, such as a RfC? Those IPs (if they're even different people) don't even seem willing to use the talk page, let alone attempt to negotiate about this. They just keep removing anything and everything that shows the WWASP in a negative light (i.e. most of the article and all of the sources). CameoAppearance ^orate 19:34, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, I'll continue reverting the IPs' removals, because I feel it is important that Wikipedia report the truth. I'm trying to assume good faith here, but it honestly doesn't seem like they're interested in the truth. CameoAppearance ^orate 19:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support group for survivors?

This is semi on-topic but I don't know where else to put it, there seem to be some people editing this page that have gone through this as well. Is there any forum, support group or mailing list for people who have gone through these programs, or especially Casa by the Sea? Even related "correctional" schools would be okay.. if anyone out there has gone through this, you know what I mean when I say that unrelated people don't understand and just can't support in the same way that other survivors (or whatever you want to call them) can.76.185.10.76 22:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]