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FMS/FELM

Hi, Please find a new note on your previous talk page. Yours, Panu Hallamaa (talk) 22:21, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

unarchived below

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Hi,

Thank you for creating the FMS article! I had actually thought that it should be done, but there it is, thanks to you.

However, I felt I had to change the tense since FELM is very much the same thing as FMS. Have been involved since 1969, when my folks moved to Onandjokwe.

Therefore I would recommend that this article be moved to a new article entitled FELM. On this particular page (FMS), there should be a #REDIRECT FELM.

I suppose more material should be translated from the Finnish article. But that article has its problems, so it won’t happen anytime soon, at least not by me.

If that is done, attention should be given to other mission fields besides Namibia. Actually, I’ve been thinking that the Finnish article should be shortened, and most of the stuff concerning Namibia should be put in a separate article. Likewise with China (1901–49).

One more thing: I was rather surprized about the statement that apparently comes from Pellervo Kokkonen, “but also due to a contempt of the politics and ideas of the German missionaries”. I don’t have access to this article; if you do, could you let me know where he gets this idea? The destination of Ovamboland was chosen by the Board of the FMS on June 12, 1867 (Matti Peltola 1958: 31). The Finns had heard that the Ovambo kings had requested for missionaries. Whatever transpired in Otjimbingwe did not affect the matter, as I see it.

Yours sincerely, Panu Hallamaa (talk) 23:11, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Panu, thanks for your article changes. I have thought as well whether FELM might be the better name for this article. However, everything that is currently in the article relates to the Finnish Missionary Society, not the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Mission. As soon as there are current events that make clear that FECM is independently notable we can think of it again.

Regarding the split of the activities in Namibia and China: This can currently not be done because it would leave us without a parent article. (FMS activities in Namibia without an article on FMS) As soon as the main article gets too big (currently a rather unlikely event), content forking is fine.

I'm not quite sure about the Kokkonen statement. I do have access to JSTOR but I forgot the login. Will try from work tomorrow and let you know. Cheers, Pgallert (talk) 12:03, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi, while I’m at it (in Finnish Wikipedia) I might as well take the time to write to you on the FMS/FELM issue. The thing is that the Finnish constitution only recognises 2 national (official) languages, Finnish and Swedish. All legislation is written and published in these two languages. There are some minority languages, e.g. Saami, Karelian, Roma. But this only means that you can deal with the authorities and officials in these languages. Only bits and pieces of our legislation exist in these languages. English, however, has no place in our legislation. I don’t think it’s even mentioned there. At least not in the critical passages.

This means that associations, such as the FMS/FELM are required to have their name in either or both of these languages. What they decide to call themselves in other languages is up to them. This possibility was exploited by the Sami Parliament of Finland (and this name is not official, I might point out), when they chose their English name, as suggested by Fredrik Forsberg, who told me of this thing. The Finnish authorities would never have allowed this body to be called “Parliament“ in Finnish or Swedish. Thus the FMS was free to change its English name to FELM, and they did not even have to notify the National Board of Patents and Registration (Finland) of it. You will find Suomen Lähetyseura registered there in 1919 for the first time (you will find this on-line). Where they were registered between 1859 and 1919, I don’t know, possibly in St. Petersburg, because they did receive the permission from Alexander II of Russia to form the society. Yours sincerely, Panu Hallamaa (talk) 22:19, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Panu, that's an interesting situation. As already mentioned, my only concern is that the Finnish Missionary Society article currently contains nothing about FELM apart from a mention in passing. In fact, it contains no reliable reference to any of FELM's activities (this is not an independent source, and all other references are historical and do not even mention FELM). That situation is of my making, of course. I approached the topic from the perspective of Namibian history, and from this perspective FSM is more important than FELM. You might notice that the situation with Rhenish Missionary Society is just the same: It is today part of the de:Vereinte Evangelische Mission, which has an article only on the German Wikipedia but not on en. It hasn't been moved there because nobody has assembled reliable references for the new organisation's activities. I think the solution is to show that there are third-party references to the importance of FELM, and only then to move the page. The other option would be to keep two separate articles, considering that there is a lot of potential content on FSM. I don't have a terribly strong feeling about which way to prefer. Cheers, Pgallert (talk) 07:23, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, if you go to the following page, you’ll find everything there is official about the name of FMS/FELM: [1]

“ruotsiksi” means ‘in Swedish’. The other bit you’ll find there is the “Staff association of the FMS/FELM”.

Note that there is nothing in English in any of this.

Of course, what ought to be done is I should translate some of the Finnish article, so that we would have a proper parent article. Yours sincerely, Panu Hallamaa (talk) 22:51, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Request for clarification regarding Jerusalem RFC

A request for clarification has been submitted regarding the ArbCom mandated Jerusalem RFC process. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:19, 29 April 2013 (UTC)