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Terri Schiavo

You have the patience of a saint, my friend. You're an inspiration. I have a far lower frustration threshhold than you apparently do. Keep up the good work. --AStanhope 21:41, 19 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, FuelWagon, for reformatting my Let's go sentence by sentence post. Given the size the talk page now is, that'll sure make any contributions easier for the users. Duckecho 16:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ghost, that's a very generous way of saying this editor is a partisan hack. - LOL. Of course, but that's my style, my friend....If I give them enough rope, they'll save me the trouble of a hanging...--ghost 5 July 2005 14:54 (UTC)

Mediation

The request for mediation on the Terri Schiavo article is here.

I've been asked by ghost to step in as Mediator. How do you feel about that? And where (if anywhere) shall we discuss all this? -- Uncle Ed (talk) 23:02, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Please meet me at Talk:Terri Schiavo/Mediation. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 00:22, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

NCdave

RFC on NCdave

I have filed a request for comment on NCdave. You can visit the page by going here. I have left this message on your talk page since you have been involved in the dispute resolution process regarding his edits in the past. Mike H 11:31, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

Editor comments on NCdave

I will now commence chuckling and knee-slapping Just wanted to let you know that I am officially appropriating the phrase "Whack-a-Mole logic game" for my own use, that is excellent. Been trying to think of a succint way to describe NCdave's style of debate for a while now.
Fox1 08:11, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

(And the "whack-a-mole logic game" is brilliant.)Mia-Cle 01:04, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As you saw, friend NCdave is back and has put the NPOV tag on twice. Be on the lookout for more of the same. I'm concerned about taking it out a third time. Duckecho 01:06, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also, I apparently I have a fan club. A W-a-M stalker is following me around and posting stuff addressed to me at other peoples' talk pages. I'm sure he'll do it here. I know you'll know how to handle it.

I have asked for disciplinary measures against NCDave on Talk:Terri Schiavo/Mediation#It's time to deal with the bully. I ask for your support.--ghost 19:49, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mediator's Announcement

You are invited to participate in the Mediation regarding the Terry Schiavo article. Initial discussion is beginning at Talk:Terri Schiavo/Mediation. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 20:28, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Intelligent Design

I admit to my own POV on Intelligent Design (I'm neo-Pagan), so having another Wikipedian that I know telling me when I'm being stupid would be very helpful. I respect your work on all things Terri Schiavo, and hope I can enlist your help.--ghost 21:21, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In the future, refrain from deleting my comments. --goethean ॐ 04:24, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

the New Yorker had an excellent piece on Intelligent Design a few weeks ago--I recommend it as a good read if you didn't catch it. (I actually haven't read the I.D. page on wikipedia though, so I don't know if it would be helpful.)--Mia-Cle 00:24, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nuclear option

I'm sorry to say the usefulness of that article has decreased since the recent edits of User:Hbomb and User:Ed Poor (beginning around May 12). It is confusing, and it seems to intentionally obscure the basic facts of the maneuver. --CSTAR 20:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Apology accepted. I'll take a look at it. I found some good stuff on the reaction to "THE DEAL" made on Monday, and I'll add it at some point. Dave (talk) 04:46, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

The goal of my edits was not to water down Democratic criticisms but to present the same criticisms in a more clearly neutral point of view. I'm actually sympathetic to the Democratic position in this debate, but that position is stronger when the points made are clearly neutrally stating facts rather than coming across (when read by someone who favors the nuclear option) as attacks or accusations. I think the article as a whole is superb and have directed people who don't understand why anyone would oppose the nuclear option to read the article. I'm just trying to look for statements that would be perceived as possibly biased in their presentation and restate them to convey the same information in a way that doesn't raise red-flags.

I would be very happy to coordinate with you to find mutually acceptable wording for statements you feel have been watered down. I'll kick some proposed wording out for you-- would you prefer that it be here or on the Nuclear Option talk page? --Naltrexone (talk)

Fuel, double-checking before I jump in. Did you get my response? Is the invite still open, or should we discuss it further?--ghost 15:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

FW, "I'm goin in Maverick..."--ghost 18:35, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Goethean's opinion

Since you seem to have it all figured out over there, perhaps you should spend your time there too. FuelWagon 7 July 2005 18:04 (UTC)

I ignored your last invitation to leave Wikipedia, but I did see it. In response, I suggest that you look into the very basic principles of civility that the Wikipedia requires for its members. I think that you're an asshole too, but I decline to attack you personally. Perhaps you should consider a similar approach. --goethean ॐ 7 July 2005 18:11 (UTC)

Schiavo, of course

Yo Fuel, you know I think you're the shit. That being said, maybe you could try and get your message across without all capitals and without swear words (or calling SlimVirgin a jerk and an asshole etc etc). Keeping it civil will give you a slightly better chance of getting your message across. Of course, if that doesn't work, then I think Wiki policy allows you to kill them. Proto t c 14:31, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What Proto the wise said. Fuel, we all know you mean well, and we know you're pissed about some of the things the new contributor wrote. She has certainly played a very significant role in escalating this, in a manner very unlike what one would expect from an experienced editor and administrator. However, the cursing might get you banned, which would be a loss to Wikipedia and all the projects you've worked on. Take a deep breath before you post next on the issue. I'll be saying my piece shortly.~ Neuroscientist | T | C → 18:37, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

FuelWagon, I think that both SlimVirgin and yourself are valuable editors. With that said, how would you feel about removing personal attacks from the talk page? Just put a note in the summary field; I would much rather have you do it than someone else, plus it would show goodwill on your part. See Wikipedia:Remove_personal_attacks. --Viriditas | Talk 19:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

SlimVirgin edit

SlimVirgin made a massive edit here.

in this one diff, he both denies it is a massive edit while saying it was a couple hours of editing.

After his edit was reverted, SlimVirgin posted this If you feel I've introduced errors, please list them on talk, and I will go through them with you. But do list them. Don't make unsubstantiated claims.

The list of issues with SlimVirgin's edits include the following:

regarding this diff: The embedded note that USED to be there said:

<-- This paragraph is a direct quote from Dr. Bernat's testimony before the U.S. Senate in April 2005. Dr. Bernat's testimony was approved by the AAN Executive Committee. The two links provided document the testimony and the AAN approval.-->

SlimVirgin deleted this embedded note, and then inserts into the same paragraph, an embedded note questioning the accuracy of the quote.

<--Is this true? I seem to recall a case in England where a man woke up after a long time in PVS.--><--What levels of "prognostic certainty"?:

"During this time, the Schindlers allegedly encouraged Mr. Schiavo to get on with his life, and he introduced them to women he was dating."

inserting the word "allegedly" might be technically not untrue, it casts a whole lot of doubt without any context. This statement about dating was reported by a guardian ad litem to the court. It is the guy's job to get the facts right, not present one pov. I can't recall, but I'm prety sure the guardian ad litem did not use the word "allegedly" in his report. and as far as I know, the Schindlers never challenged that statement at the time, either. Though I believe they may have challenged it much (years?) later, when they were willing to challenge anything possible. There's a URL right by that line with an embedded note saying <-- quoting from page 11 of 38 of Wolfson report -->, in case anyone was wondering where the "alleged" statement came from.

The noise awoke Michael Schiavo, and he called 911 emergency services. <--I'm deleting "immediately" wherever I find it, because it's journalese and usually unverifiable, not because I think it wasn't immediate.-->"

Govorner Bush launched an investigation specifically into whether or not Michael called 911 "immediately" or whether there was foul play on his part. The DA recently dropped the investigation saying Michael's story was consistent and that the cause of Terri's collapse was probably cardiac arrest.

"(PVS), according to seven neurologists who examined her, or a minimally conscious state (MCS), according to one other."

The dissenting neurologist suggested "therapies" that the court dismissed as quackery. If this neurologist is included in the intro, then his diasnosis as MCS needs to include the fact that his therapies are questionable.

Before: In March 1994, guardian ad litem John H. Pecarek was appointed by the court to determine if there had been any abuse by Michael Schiavo. Pecarek's report found no evidence for any inappropriate actions, and indicated that Michael had been very attentive to his wife. <--Do not remove Pecarek's statement. It is quoted in several court orders and GAL reports, however Pecarek's report is unavailable on the internet. -->

SlimVirgin's Edit: In March 1994, guardian ad litem John H. Pecarek was appointed by the court to determine whether there had been any abuse by Mr. Schiavo. Pecarek's report found no evidence of any inappropriate acts, and indicated that Mr. Schiavo had been attentive to his wife. <--attentive? did he actually use this word?-->Mr. Schiavo remained his wife's guardian.<--Might it be worth explaining the sense in which he remained her guardian when there were court-appointed guardians?-->

an informative embedded note is deleted (the one saying the statement from Pecarek is QUOTED in several court orders but NOT available directly on the internet). And it is replaced by a question of accuracy "Did he really use that word?"

Before: Other neurologists — Drs. Jeffery M. Karp, James H. Barnhill, and Thomas H. Harrison — also examined Mrs. Schiavo over the years and made the same diagnosis; they also shared a very poor opinion about her chances for recovery.

SlimVirgin Version: Other neurologists — Dr. Jeffery M. Karp, Dr. James H. Barnhill, and Dr. Thomas H. Harrison — also examined Schiavo over the years and made the same diagnosis, which entailed a poor prognosis.

changed the emphasis on the second half of the sentence from "all shared the opinion of poor chance for recovery" to "Terri's chances for recovery were poor", but it's no longer clear that this is something that all the doctor's believed.

Despite this laundry list of problems, SlimVirgin has NOT ONCE conceeded that there is ANY PROBLEM with ANY PART of his ENTIRE EDIT.

SlimVirgin accusations

SlimVirgin made a number of unsourced accusations on the talk page against me

SlimVirgin wrote "But I feel that FuelWagon and Duckecho are POV pushing too by insisting, for example, that no dissenting voice be heard in the intro."

Although I told SlimVirgin I never said any such nonsense, he has to date not apologized for such a gross distortion of facts. FuelWagon 21:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The benefits of adminship is never having to admit you're wrong and never having to say you're sorry. FuelWagon 21:32, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

SlimVirgin wrote It appears that a small group of editors, currently consisting of User:FuelWagon and User:Duckecho have taken ownership of this page and won't allow others to edit without their consent. This isn't allowed.

This was in response to SlimVirgin's massive edit, discussed above with all its problems. I reverted his edit because of all teh problems listed above. And rather than admit it's a bad edit, he accuses me of "taking ownership" of the article. Fixing a bad edit === ownership???? FuelWagon 21:54, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No acknowledgement of this accusation being false, misplaced, or otherwise misdirected has been forthcoming. FuelWagon 21:54, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here, SlimVirgin accuses me of violating NPOV and "No Original Research".

Neither one of which were something I violated. I haven't acted neutral towards SlimVirgin, but I have been completely NPOV to the article. I have no clue where the "No Original Research" violation came from.

No apology from SlimVirgin has been forthcoming. FuelWagon 22:00, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am currently blocked

SlimVirgin made a massively bad edit and a number of false accusations against me.

I swore at him on the talk page, mostly when he accused me of something I didn't do, or put words in my mouth that I never said.

Because I swore at him, I've been blocked from wikipedia for 'unrepentent personal attacks'

For his efforts at bad editing and false accusations, SlimVirgin is currently active.

He also happens to be an administrator, which, apparently has its perks, not the least of which is never having to say your sorry for unrepentant bad edits or unrepentant false accusations.

I'll let everyone know when I'm back online.

FuelWagon 22:07, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ed Poor

Your user name or IP address has been blocked by Ed Poor.

You can email Ed Poor or one of the other administrators to discuss the block.

ok, click on email Ed Poor

This user has not specified a valid e-mail address, or has chosen not to receive e-mail from other users.

(swell)