User talk:Gwen Gale

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Thanks

For watching my talk and blocking that new sock.— Dædαlus ^Contribs 21:29, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Heh and only to say it, I hadn't seen the that one'd dropped me username till I looked at it again :) Gwen Gale (talk) 21:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Muffinman991

This editor User:Muffinman991 is using racial terms. See here:[1]. That's all.Mcelite (talk) 02:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Warned. Gwen Gale (talk) 03:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Are you watching the show too?

Think carefully about the next move. Every step Carol has made so far has been a step in poo pees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.88.115.130 (talk) 10:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I can say goldbug is a wholly PoV term and doesn't belong in the discussion. Gwen Gale (talk) 14:05, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Noted the edit from "Controversies" - thank you! I've now added some links to discussion for Mr Marshall. Appreciated your support on this. Amicaveritas (talk) 18:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to say "thanks," but for your comments in the AN thread. Your friendly, helpful tone was much more palatable than the commanding and derisive tones used by others. Most importantly, my wife agreed with you. We have made some trims -both here and elsewhere- with an eye toward having the right balance of transparency and privacy that best meets our family's needs. Thank you for your help! — Kralizec! (talk) 12:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Those needs can shift over time and only y'all can know what they are :) Gwen Gale (talk) 13:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

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Delivered by SoxBot II (talk) at 04:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:911ct supporters

Template:911ct supporters has been nominated for deletion by Ice Cold Beer. As this TfD nomination includes objections to the same list of people that is currently in use in Template:911ct, I am inviting you to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. (I am sending this message to you as a current or former editor of Alex Jones (radio host), following the guideline on multiple messages.) Regards —  Cs32en  09:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Donadio and disruptions

Hello. I did not call his edits "vandalism" with no reasons. User:Donadio was blocked several times last months for the same kind of disruptions in Wikipedia. He floods talk pages of articles with personal theories, useless discussions and personal attacks. He already pretended to be leaving Wikipedia, and even reverted all his edits saying he "did not want to be associated with Wikipedia any way". [2] [3]

If an user who after getting blocked several times for disruptions, reported to be leaving Wikipedia, reverted all his edits but now is back using Wikipedia's talk pages for personal attacks is not a vandal, then he may be at least a Single-purpose account], since he only uses his account to create discussions, edit-warrings and disruptions at WIkipedia. Notice that he "disappered" from Wikipedia for a month. But, his first edit was dedicated for personal attacks at talk page of White Brazilian article. Is it a serious user? Opinoso (talk) 15:25, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Moreover, he admitted to be using a sockpopet at the Incident discussion. Opinoso (talk) 15:50, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Editing from an IP is not always sockpuppetry, although I'll ask him about that. Meanwhile, call it disruption, edit warring against consensus, original research, whatever, but that edit wasn't vandalism. Calling it vandalism makes it much more difficult to see, understand and fix the problem. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Gwen. You have asked why I didn't take that edit to the Talk Page. The reason is simple: I have many times argued in the talk page that the number of 25 million people of Italian descent in Brazil is absurd and does not match reality. However, this figure is a widespread meme; there are hundreds of sites reporting it. I have found a source that has sober numbers, probably much closer to reality. I don't want even to take the other "information" out; just to make clear that "25 million" is not an uncontroversial number.

I have discussed this issue many times in the Talk Page. I only got abuse, slander, threats, and was even blocked three times for defending truth against absurd. So I am not going to take that to the Talk Page again, to be again accused of being "obsessed with Portugal", "a Portuguese nationalist", of "using Phone Books as source", of "being proud of being of colonial descent", etc, etc, etc.

I am sorry, but Opinoso isn't someone with whom it is possible to argue rationally. He wants it his way, and will not make concessions.

Please read the Talk Page of that article. Please read the archived discussions on Opinoso's personal Talk Page.

Thank you for your patience. Donadio (talk) 18:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes. That edit is verifiable and sourced, and its source is mainstream and reliable. I hope it is made to stick, even if the "owner" of the article doesn't like it. Donadio (talk) 18:31, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a tertiary source, hence WP:V has sway: The goal of any article here is not truth, but verifiability. Sources widely held as reliable can be wrong. However, if a consensus of editors thinks the sources are reliable, this can be daunting to overcome. If you've already tried and failed to get consensus, there is likely little you can do short of using the talk page to carefully, in a civil way, whilst never making personal attacks of any kind, show why your source might be more reliable or at least worth putting into the text. Sometimes, one can settle this kind of thing by having the cited text say, "Some sources say foo, but others say bar." Meanwhile, the edit you made (and which I noted on your talk page) was sourced, but what you wrote was not blended into the text. Gwen Gale (talk) 18:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I have tried to discuss in the Talk Page many times. Some standard behaviour from the other part:

Me: "But how comes Jews appear as the third most important religious group in your reckoning?" Him: **absolutely no answer**

"Please, stop with this Portuguese obsession."

"To the racist IP who thinks black people cannot be approved to an University in Santa Catarina, I think he should find a racist forum to post this comment. He should be blocked from Wikipedia for that pathetic comment."

"STOP trying to destroy this article. Stop manipulating the numbers.

"Stop with this Portuguese obsession. If you have all this obsession with Portugal, there are many articles about this country in Wikipedia. You should write about Portuguese subjects, not about Brazilian."

"I won't let you destroy this article with wrong information. Give it up."

Me: "Well, do these embassies conduct actual research on demographic data?" Him: **absolutely no answer**

(To another user that was trying to give a third opinion) "Please, do not "feed" this User:Donadio. He was already blocked two times for causing troubles in this same article in a period of only 1 week[8] and now he is back again with the same behave. Bye."

"Wikipedia is not a forum for useless discussion. This discussion is out of place. Bye."

"The user has a clear pro-Portuguese point of view."

"Then, Donadio, stop with this useless discussion."

"Italians being attacked"

"Please, administrators, block this Donadio. He is obviously using a single purpose account . All he does at Wikipedia is to find troubles in this article, with an obsession with diminishing the Italian influence in Brazil."

"You are attacking all the informations about Italians in this article since your first edit here, trying to transform this article in a copy of Portuguese people article, with your single purpose account."

(reacting to me putting "fact" tags next to "sources" that were actually broken links) "Moreover, you also claimed people from Calabria are not Italians...then, what are they? I'd like to know where you take all these informations from."

"It's funny, because you use Phone Books as source."

"Stop claiming a person of recent European immigrant descent is "less Brazilian" than a person of old ancestry, non-white ancestry." (a blatant lie; I never claimed anything remotely similar)

"Funny. First you claimed most white Brazilians are "colonial Portuguese", including your grandparents (when nobody asked you this information, why did you post it?)." (see the level of sheer hostility)

He doesn't want to discuss. He wants his way, and if his way is threatened, he either makes rants full of logical inconsistencies and personal attacks (and even lies), or refuses to answer at all, and relies in his superior ability to keep his absurds in the article.

In short, he is not a friend, he is not friendly at all, he is not reasonable, he strives to own the article, he is not open to cooperation, he systematically violates WP:AGF. Donadio (talk) 19:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I understand what you're telling me but the very first thing you must do is stop making personal attacks on other editors, stop commenting on them at all, otherwise I can't help you. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

So, he is allowed to make personal attacks but I am not?

Please read the Talk Page of the article. It is full of personal attacks by Opinoso. I try to refrain from making these, mainly because it is really not my style, but, frankly, up to now such behaviour seems to be supported and encouraged. In fact, yelling louder seems to be the way to make articles read like one wants.

What about [4], making threats on my Talk Page as if he was some admin or moderator? Is this allowed? Donadio (talk) 19:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

As I've already told you, I've also warned Opinoso about making personal attacks. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:51, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Portuguese nationalism

I don't know if you have noticed, but it's a case of Portuguese nationalism there. I do not have the ownership of that article, and I do not want to. My problem with Donadio is old. Months ago, he appered reducing the number of people of Italian, German or Arab descent and increasing the number of people of Portuguese, particularly "colonial" Portuguese. He tried to sell the idea that white Brazilians are all of colonial Portuguese ancestry, while the other ethnic groups are small minorities. Then, he wrote in the talk page of the article that his grandparents were of "colonial" Portuguese descent. Since he was reducing the figures of Italians, German, etc, increasing the figures of Portuguese and then he reported to be of Portuguese descent, I realized it was a Portugues nationalism.

It was a long discussion, he posted several personal theories on that article. He even tried to use a Phone Book as a source, claiming that for the fact that most Brazilians have Portuguese surname, it means they're all of Portuguese descent (it's like claiming an African-American with British surname is of British descent).

He was blocked several times for disruptions in that same article, and even pretended to be leaving Wikipedia. [5] But, of course, he did not leave it, he's back again to the same article he was previously blocked for disruptions.

The user also manipulates sources in Portuguese, because most people cannot read it. He claimed that "Acording to Adriano Albino, there are about 10,800,000 people of post-colonial Portuguese descent in Brazil." The source does not even claim that. The source claimed this figure only including until third generation descendants. The source does not even talk about the figure of "post-colonial" descendants. Braizil became independent in 1822. Since there, there are 8 or higher generations. The source only counted until third generation. I reverted his source manipulation, but you reverted me back, and I don't know why.

We already had a long discussion about the size of the Italian-descend population. He already took that discussion to different parts of Wikipedia, including many other users. The Italian Embassy claims there are 25 million Italian Brazilians. And that's the source most users agreed to use. Donadio already used many personal theories to decrease this figure. The discussion was ended since a long time ago, and he already told me that he agreed with the 25 million. Not true, since he is once again trying to diminish the official figures:[6]

Since I'm the only person who posts in that article, all the things he posts in the talk page, I'm the only one that will see. I already tried to discuss with the user, but I gave up. It's a Portuguese nationalist who only wants to sell the idea white Brazilians are all Portuguese, without miscegenation, and that other ethnic groups are small minorities.

And when I included the information that "white Brazilians are mainly of colonial ancestry" I included the majority of self-reported white Brazilians, who are usually lighter skinned mixed-race people who think themselves as whites. It's not me who is saying that, but is anthropologist Darcy Ribeiro on his book O Povo Brasileiro. But, if we count only white people (not lighter skinned mixed-race people) whites of post-colonial ancestry will outnumbers those of colonial ancestry.

Donadio is using this as if I was a crazy person who claimed something on the talk page, and then wrote another information on the article.

I won't discuss with him anymore. It's not a serious user. Blocked several times, uses personal theories, Portuguese nationalist obssessed with "colonial Portuguese", non-neutral personal. I'm too busy for that. But I won't let him destroy that article once again with his Portuguese obssession. I won't let him decrease the official figures of Italians. Just take a look at past discussions. I already discussed with him several times. I noticed he was not a serious person. He's back after 1 month he disappered, reviving an old discussion. I don't want to revive that discussion. I gave up.

I ask you guys not to "feed" him. When other users feed him, he floods pages and more pages with discussions, disruptions. Then he gest blocked, disappers for a while, and then he comes back with the same discussion. It's like a circle. Just be carefull. Bye. Opinoso (talk) 21:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)