User talk:Lawrence Cohen: Difference between revisions
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== GDS == |
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|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:WikiDefender_Barnstar.png|100px]] |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar''' |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | And others. '''[[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Sceptre|talk]])</sup> 23:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==blp== |
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Not remotely. everything I mentioned is covered in the article.[[User:Geni|Geni]] 23:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:You're trolling a BLP subject. Anyone who does that deserves an unpaid vacation. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::are you accuseing me of paid editing to wikipedia? And no I'm not.[[User:Geni|Geni]] 23:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I could care less if someone were paid to edit here, I wish people were, for all it matters, if they churn out neutral Featured Articles. Unpaid vacation = block. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::I'm british so I think the term is gardening leave. In any case threats will get you no where. I've gone head to head with everyone to two bit vandales to rouge admins to board memebers. Do you honestly think I can be intimidated by a few threats of blocking? Try logical debate.[[User:Geni|Geni]] 23:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::Logic falls by the wayside vs not harming others. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::I'm just a traveler from the afd page but I think that you are being pretty rough with Geni. You've suggested three times now (included on the afd page for Giovanni di Stefano) that Geni should/would be banned/blocked for not supporting your view on BLP. Furthermore, you have repeatedly claimed, without any justification, that "do no harm" should be the foremost tenet of wikipedia, not NPOV, not notability, not freedom from censorship. Keep in mind that 'do no harm' is NOT the overriding operating principle of wikipedia, nor does 'ignore all rules' dictate that one particular opinion should win out. As a matter of fact, IAR is there so that consensus should not be constrained by wikilawyering. Furthermore you are prepared to threaten or visit harm upon a wiki user in order to assert your feelings about a contentious biography. now I'm not saying that you are going to come around and feel differently than you do. I just wish you would accept that we are going to move forward based on consensus and that consensus might not reflect your personal interpretation of BLP.[[User:Protonk|Protonk]] ([[User talk:Protonk|talk]]) 03:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==AfD nomination of Andrew J. Moonen== |
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I have nominated [[Andrew J. Moonen]], an article you created, for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]]. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrew J. Moonen]]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. <small>Do you want to [[Template:Bots#Message notification opt out|opt out]] of receiving this notice?</small><!-- Template:AFDWarning --> <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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Yes, I really did just do that. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== User talk:Doc glasgow/BLP watch == |
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Feel free to add stuff yourself if it obviously raises issues of provacy, subject's preference, or general decency.--[[User:Doc glasgow|Doc]]<sup>g</sup> 23:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:can't, my RFA didn't pass. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::What has that to do with it? Experienced editors do not need to be admins to do whatever does not involve those buttons, please reconsider your argument. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 00:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Nah, I think I protected it, I'll reduce to semi.--[[User:Doc glasgow|Doc]]<sup>g</sup> 00:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks Doc! Squeak, I wasn't arguing that I didn't want to edit it. :) <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 00:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::Thanks indeed doc, I know I haven't edited the page but nice to know I can. And that Lawrence can too. And thanks for the heads up, Lawrence, I hadn't checked. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 03:47, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==di Stefano deletion== |
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You're not helping your argument by repeating it over and over and over again, you're just looking a little hysterical. Please don't accuse folks of wanting to hurt di Stefano or lacking moral fiber unless you're prepared to back it up with something much more significant than a keep vote on an AfD with IAR as a rationale. [[User:Avruch|<strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch</strong>]][[User talk:Avruch|<sup><strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T </strong></sup>]] 01:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:While I think it would be easy to back up the assertions Avruch mentions, calmness is always a good strategy. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 01:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::That is the second or third time today you have insinuated that I have an agenda to harm di Stefano, and for bonus this comment implies I lack moral fiber. If its as easy as you say, I'd very much like to see your assertions backed up. [[User:Avruch|<strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch</strong>]][[User talk:Avruch|<sup><strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T </strong></sup>]] 01:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::We should do no harm. I certainly have no agenda with you, Avruch, but I do feel that we should have an article about di stefano but the edits Geni and you and DF are making are making this impossible, and I am terribly frustrated by this as a long term editor who broke my wikipedia teeth on Daniel Brandt. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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You guys, please give Lawrence a break. If you haven't noticed, his name is on the lawsuit papers filed, along with Avruch. He is probably stressed and is backing his contributions and covering himself. Avruch, I'd be careful what you say too. Everything is logged, and we need to be very careful about this case. Let's all calm down, and wait this out. <font face = "Bradley Hand ITC"> <font color="#F88017"> -[[User:Hairchrm|<font color="#F88017"> '''ђαίгснгм''' </font>]] [[User talk:Hairchrm|<font color="#F88017"> <sup> таιќ </sup> </font>]]</font> </font> 05:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==Orphaned non-free media (Image:Ironmanfilmflight.jpg)== |
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[[Image:Nuvola apps important blue.svg|25px]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Ironmanfilmflight.jpg]]'''. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, it is currently [[Wikipedia:Orphan|orphaned]], meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. [[WP:BOLD|You may add it back]] if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]). |
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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Orphaned --> [[User:BJBot|BJBot]] ([[User talk:BJBot|talk]]) 12:14, 20 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==Sanchez is evading his block again== |
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After your comments yesterday, Sanchez has decided to attack you on the [[Matt Sanchez]] talk page via a sock, and continue editing his article, evading his ban. Here's his new sock handle: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Brianlandeche]. --[[User:Tanstaffl|Tanstaffl]] ([[User talk:Tanstaffl|talk]]) 14:06, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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: Tanstaffl looks rather sockish. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 14:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::See [[WP:AE]] and [[WP:RFCU]]. Murky situation with significant chance of a [[joe job]]. <font face="Verdana">[[User:Durova|<span style="color:#009">Durova</span>]]</font><sup>''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]''</sup> 17:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Nothing personal == |
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I see where you're coming from; I just don't think it will help. <font face="Verdana">[[User:Durova|<span style="color:#009">Durova</span>]]</font><sup>''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]''</sup> 17:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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: I know, I know. Something has to give on this, sooner or later. :( <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 17:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== The RFAR == |
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Lawrence, my friend - do you think you could, in about 10 minutes and after a walk around the block perhaps, consider tempering your language a bit there? It would be very helpful. You see, the steam coming out of your ears is fogging up my monitor... ;-) Thanks. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 17:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:This is a good idea. But adminship be damned, the right thing is more important. :( <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 17:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::It has nothing to do with adminship, Lawrence. You want your message to be heard and given the respect it deserves; you want to ''motivate'' Arbcom to take the case. Given some of the perceptions amongst that group about what is and isn't civil (as inconsistently or conveniently applied as they may be), it works in your favour to present a head-over-heart argument. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 17:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Admins == |
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{{archive-top}} |
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Admins have no extra authority in debates, and his closure is contrary to what was understood at the end of the DRV. They have access to tools, that is all. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 22:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:You know I'm the first person to agree with that, and have gone to bat in such matters before. But the closing of debates like this is one of the few priveledges that lay with admins over regular users. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 22:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::His closure is based on the idea that the DRV had the final call in the matter, which isn't the case. And it's just gaming the system. Any admin can come along and force these things, and that forces other users to start a DRV, then the user who starts a DRV is called disruptive. This is wrong. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 22:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Lets move this over to Thatcher's talk page. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 22:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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{{archive-bottom}} |
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You could just ask me to do that normally. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 22:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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Wait, you started that ANI thread in reaction to Brandt throwing an off-wiki hissy fit? Shame on you, I would have expected you to not feed the trolls. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 22:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:No, in response to JoshuaZ's provacations towards a BLP subject. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::''"I filed the ANI request to topic-ban Josh from Brandt after seeing his RFD end-run and Brandt's outrage as a BLP subject on Wikipedia Review."'' And it should be painfully clear that Joshua was under the impression that the DRV closing admin as ok with the RFD. We've since cleared that up as not being the case, but Joshua didn't know that when he started the RfD. What the hell are you trying to do to this guy? -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 23:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::He is trying to get him banned from the Daniel brandt topic, a proposal many agree with. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 23:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::No, I'm asking for a preventative measure to get an ex-admin who may have abusively used sockpuppets to stack a Brandt DRV to leave the BLP subject alone on-wiki. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::(SqueakBox) It's a proposal that many disagree with as well |
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:::::(Lawrence) I've never used sockpuppets, I never was an admin, and the matter isn't personal for me. Are you going to propose a topical ban when I take my next step in this? I don't know if he used socks or not, I don't know if it's personal or not, but every rationale he has given in this discussion is completely valid. The deletion of the redirect, the deletion of the article history, the way that well known admins are getting away with gaming the system, is wrong. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 23:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::Ned, that is so. But its when a proposal gets universal disagreement that people think, hey maybe this was a completely bad call (as I think they would if someone proposed for a ban on you editing this topic) whereas a proposal as disputed as this one at least has some value to it. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 23:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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To echo [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AThatcher&diff=207481441&oldid=207480741 Thatcher], fuck process and fuck policy wonkery. Our voices are what matter, not the venue, and that is that. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Our voices, our right to make these decisions as a community, have been removed, regardless of venue. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 23:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::No, you guys had your shot on the DRV and the community obviously doesn't want [[Daniel Brandt]]. Is that only valid if they don't want it for rules-based reasons you all can't wriggle out of with process games and nonsense like that? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Probably the mosst discussed article/redirect the community has ever dealt with. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 23:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::With a vast majority of the over-all discussion not supporting anything even close to the situation we have now. What you have is people who were run into the ground, and got tired of the debate and gave up. You have people wanting to delete it not because of the merits of the discussion, but because the word "drama" gets thrown around. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 23:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:::(EC)Like I said on the other page, "OMG, not again, endorse deletion, DRAMA" bullshit has no value on Wikipedia. It's why we are (normally) not mob ruled. And how dare you accuse me of that crap when I've taken all of the proper steps in this situation, and yet people like WJB and Doc g get away with deleting actions that directly violate AfDs and DRVs. They stack the deck in their favor and get away with it, not because the community supported it, but because they gamed the system. You ''might'' be able to interpret Joshua's actions as gaming the system, since now we know that these was confusion regarding his discussion with the DRV closing admin, but how dare you accuse me of that. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 23:50, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::::I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm saying that I could give a fig about "venue" discussion or process discussion. It's a waste of time. Fuck process. Are we mob ruled? Sometimes, yes, and thats what that is, and thats the way it is. RFA is a mob, AFD is a mob, DRV is a mob, policy discussion is a mob. I'm sick as hell of people dressing things up other than what they are, and I frankly could care less who I annoy by pointing that out anymore. We're a barely organized mob that lurches back and forth. Policy keeps from teetering most days too far. But we are a mob, and it's a waste of time to pretend otherwise. The community has basically decided, and thats that. Take it to RFAR, honestly. Theres not much else left for recourse, unless you file another DRV. Every admin is going to shut down a reopen of the RFD at this point. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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Ned, if it helps to understand my mindset, you and I are generally on the same page. My probably singular biggest annoyances are gaming of NPOV, and considering process more important than the opinions and ideas themselves that are expressed. The venue is irrelevant, really, to me: the weight of the voice is what matters. And there was simply a shitload more people that endorsed deletion than otherwise. Is the community burned out on Brandt? Apparently, yes. Is this a principle thing for you guys, to keep hammering this? I don't understand. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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I'm stepping away from this for a while. I'm sorry, this situation is bringing out a monster in me that I don't like at all. I shouldn't be treating you like this. I'm really sorry. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 00:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==CAMERA== |
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Usually I'd tell you it is a bad idea to get involved in more DRAMA, but I had no idea this Wikilobby issue = CAMERA. When I dealt with this at COIN a month or so ago, I thought they'd agreed not to do this sorta thing. Fully supporting you on the DR process. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 16:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:I about blew my top when I saw how bad they were aiming to troll NPOV. Not even troll--this is [[prison sex]] territory. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Happy Passover == |
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Just want to wish you a happy [[Passover]] and I hoped you enjoyed your [[Passover Seder|Seder]] meals and [[Matzoh]]. [[User:BuickCenturyDriver|BuickCenturyDriver]] ([[User talk:BuickCenturyDriver|talk]]) 14:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Please consider taking the [[User:Filll/AGF Challenge|AGF Challenge]] == |
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I would like to invite you to consider taking part in the [[User:Filll/AGF Challenge|AGF Challenge]] which has been proposed for use in the RfA process [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#SERIOUSLY_good_questions] by [[User: Kim Bruning]]. You can answer in multiple choice format, or using essay answers, or anonymously. You can of course skip any parts of the Challenge you find objectionable or inadvisable.--[[User:Filll|Filll]] ([[User talk:Filll|talk]]) 14:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==Excessively strident rhetoric== |
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Excessively strident rhetoric sets a bad example for other editors. Please tone it down and you will be more effective. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 16:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Along these lines, you just described Gni as "leader of subversive/troll organization from CAMERA." on ANI. This is what I would normally consider a blockable personal attack, and is certainly not helping the situation. Please correct that to a suitably non-judgemental factual comment. [[User:Georgewilliamherbert|Georgewilliamherbert]] ([[User talk:Georgewilliamherbert|talk]]) 23:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== CAMERA editors == |
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Hi, I saw that you started the arbitration request on this issue. I posted earlier on the ANI subpage, but I think it got lost in the discussion on Dajudem. Based on page 3 of the second set of emails and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_McKenna&diff=200432310&oldid=200306905 this edit], it appears that [[user:Jersmum]] is also a member of this group. He only has two edits to his name, but the first one is exactly as described in the email. Since you started the RFAR, I'll let you decide whether it's worth adding him as a party. // [[User:dchall1|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#006400">'''Chris'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:dchall1|<span style="color:#006400">(complaints)</span>]]•[[:Special:Contributions/dchall1|<span style="color:#006400">(contribs)</span>]]</sup> 16:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Got it, thanks. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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While you are looking around, and as an issue of fairness, you might want to check out this link : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wikiforpalestine/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=1 I put up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Israeli_Wiki_Lobbying and at my talk page: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dajudem#Wikipedians_for_Palestine <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dajudem|Dajudem]] ([[User talk:Dajudem|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dajudem|contribs]]) 18:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== RfA == |
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== FYI - arbitration on Israeli Wiki Lobbying == |
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I have filed an arbitration request in regards to the Israeli Wiki Lobbying and attacks uncovered: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Israeli Wiki Lobbying]]. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Thank you for notifying me regarding this dispute. [[User:Screen stalker|Screen stalker]] ([[User talk:Screen stalker|talk]]) 18:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Prior steps == |
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I didn't see this listed at the RFAR as a prior DR step [[Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard/Archive_23#Edit_warring_on_CAMERA_sourced_to_CAMERA.27s_office]] , is it related? '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 21:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Yes, actually, will add it. Thanks! <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 21:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== thank spam == |
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|align="center"|Thank you for voting in [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/VanTucky 2|my RfA]], which '''passed''' with 194 supporting, 9 opposing, and 4 neutral. <br>{{-}} Your kindness and constructive criticism is very much appreciated. I look forward to using the tools you have granted me to aid the project. I would like to give special thanks to [[User:Tim Vickers|Tim Vickers]], [[User:AGK|Anthony]] and [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] for their nominations.<br>{{-}} Thank you again, [[User:VanTucky|'''Van''']][[User talk:VanTucky|<span style="color:#FF4F00">'''Tucky'''</span>]] |
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== A quick question == |
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Hi. In light of recent events, I have been wondering whether you were ever listed on the hivemind page. [[User:John Nevard|John Nevard]] ([[User talk:John Nevard|talk]]) 13:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC) |
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: No. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 14:00, 25 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Have a cookie == |
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<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">[[Image:Choco chip cookie.jpg|100px|left]] |
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[[User:Mm40|<span style="color:blue">''Me''</span>]] [[User talk:Mm40|<span style="color:orange">''what do u want?''</span>]] <sub><font color="green">[[User:Mm40/Signature|'''Your Hancock Please''']]</font></sub> has given you a cookie! Cookies promote [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching! <br /> |
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Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{tls|Cookie}} to their talk page with a friendly message. |
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==''Signpost'' updated for April 21st, 2008.== |
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! [[Image:WikipediaSignpostHead.svg|center|500px|The Wikipedia Signpost]]<font style="position: relative; top: .3em; font-size: 250%;">'''Weekly Delivery'''</font> |
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| align="left" | '''Volume 4, Issue 17''' || align ="center" | '''[[21 April]] [[2008]]''' || align="right" | '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/About|About the Signpost]]''' |
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{{s-s|2|1|2008-04-21|BLPs|BLP deletion rules discussed amidst controversial AFD}} |
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{{s-s|2|2|2008-04-21|School threat|Threat made against high school on Wikipedia, student arrested}} |
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{{s-s|2|3|2008-04-21|Global features|Global login, blocking features developed}} |
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{{s-s|2|4|2008-04-21|WikiWorld|WikiWorld: "Disruptive technology"}} |
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{{s-s|2|5|2008-04-21|News and notes|News and notes: Wikimania security, German print Wikipedia, milestones}} |
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{{s-s|2|6|2008-04-21|In the news|Wikipedia in the News}} |
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{{s-s|2|7|2008-04-21|Dispatches|Dispatches: Monthly updates of styleguide and policy changes}} |
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{{s-s|2|8|2008-04-21|WikiProject report|WikiProject Report: The Simpsons}} |
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{{s-s|2|9|2008-04-21|Features and admins|Features and admins}} |
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{{s-s|2|10|2008-04-21|Technology report|Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News}} |
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{{s-s|2|11|2008-04-21|Arbitration report|The Report on Lengthy Litigation}} |
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| align="left" | '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Home]]''' | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives|Archives]] | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom|Newsroom]] | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions|Tip Line]] | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Tools/Single|Single-Page View]] |
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<small>You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Tools/Spamlist|''Signpost'' spamlist]]. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. [[User:Ralbot|Ralbot]] ([[User talk:Ralbot|talk]]) 17:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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==Rfa thanks== |
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Thanks for supporting my recent [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Bigtimepeace|request for adminship]] which was successful with 89 supports, 0 opposes, and 2 neutrals. Unfortunately all I can offer is this lame text thanks rather than some fancy-smancy thank-you spam template thingy. I was very pleased to receive such strong support and to hear so many nice comments from editors whom I respect. I’ll do my best with the tools, and if you ever see me going astray don’t hesitate to drop a note on my talk page. Thanks again for your support!--[[User:Bigtimepeace|Bigtimepeace]] <small>| [[User_talk:Bigtimepeace|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Bigtimepeace|contribs]]</small> 03:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Re: FYI == |
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Well, I'd hesitate to say that I had any really specific procedural model in mind when I first wrote the thing; as my edit summary pointed out, this is to some degree more of an attempt at brainstorming (born to a large extent of frustration with my own role in driving—or not driving—policy change) than a polished proposal. |
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My overriding concern is that there needs to be a practical method by which a proposal may be decided upon (rather than Kim's vision of endlessly debating while people are being lined up against the wall). While my conception probably tended more towards a fully parliamentary model than what other people may want—I have a certain preference for normative decision-making structures—I'm willing to accept just about anything that allows real policy debate and change to occur. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill]] 06:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==Arbcom== |
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I reverted the title change barring Arbcom decides to change the requested scope. If you are a clerk however and authorized to make the change, please revert me. --[[User:I Write Stuff|I Write Stuff]] ([[User talk:I Write Stuff|talk]]) 23:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Wikinews question == |
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I am working on an article for ''Wikinews'' about the DOJ IP address. Do you mind if I quote you in the article, from the first post made in the [[WP:ANI]] subsection [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=208827474#Need_admin_eyes_on_US_Department_of_Justice_activity.2C_please_.28CAMERA.2Flobbying.29 Need admin eyes on US Department of Justice activity, please (CAMERA/lobbying)] ? [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 22:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Uh, sure? I didn't see a good quote there, it's just sort of a summary overview of what happened...? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 22:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC) |
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FYI - [[n:US Dept. of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipedia]]. [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 19:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==less talky, more worky!== |
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You're starting another discussion all over. If we're gonna start building, let's start building. |
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So to make sure we're on the same line first, what do you actually want out of this? That everyone has equal input? That anyone who wants to can provide input? That people can't filibuster? |
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Those are things I can agree on upfront. :-) Anything else? |
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If so, name them, if not, fine too. Either way, give me some time to ponder, and let me see if I can create a skeleton for an organization. <small>''I've seen several people give it a shot, and hmph, frankly they didn't really know what they were doing. (for one, they didn't create a wiki-page for it, which has been known to help ;-) )''</small> |
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Less talky, more worky. |
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--[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 18:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:I added that new subsection thing since the threaded talks were totally flooded and are getting useless... sorry. Point by point... |
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::''That everyone has equal input?'' |
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::In one centrally viewed place, like DRV/RFA/AFD yes. That way, everything is on one literal page, nothing sneaks by, everything and everyone gets the same maximum visibility into policy if they want, without having to watchlist and guard 50+ pages daily or by using anything silly like custom watchlists or the horrible expanded watchlist function for all changes. |
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::''That anyone who wants to can provide input?'' |
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::Yes, and in an easily-accessible format that goes out of it's way to centrally encourage participation and the value of all participants equally without their having to spend 6 months micro-debating point by point--all equal, not some "more equal". My view on a policy should have weight, even if I don't have time to spend days, weeks, or months debating. We should not reward policy wonks for being tenatious. |
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::''That people can't filibuster?'' |
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::Yes. Having a crystal clear format and view like I wrote my understanding does three things. The PolCom "area" provides a seasoned, veteran view of the proposed changes. The "Poll" provides an instant top-level view of what the wider community ''actually'' wants--this is the MOST important factor in consensus. The discussion below would provide ample room for people to debate, and sway each other. But by keeping the focus of weight on the poll, it encourages editors who are otherwise active but that can't spend weeks on a policy page to have a fair say/value in what will happen on policy, without having a small band of editors blocking out their value. |
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:Does that make sense? We need to ''not'' reward people that sit on policy pages, but rather encourage ''everyone'' to weigh in, even if they can't spend days/weeks/months fighting for policy change. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 18:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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Alright, all of the things you want should be possible, except centralization. I wish I could tell you different, but there are real physical limitations. Centralization would require a prohibitive amount of effort. You could ''still'' centralize, if you disenfranchise all participants to an extent, but that's the one thing I'm not really willing to sacrifice. |
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Can you start thinking of ways to make the system work in a decentralized fashion? |
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<small>''(Sometimes you can think of a trick where you take a central core, and split the work out over multiple pages, in such a way that more pages can be added at will. This is how [[WP:AFD]] dug itself out of the deep deep pit it was in at the time when [[User:Ed Poor]] deleted the deletion page :-P ... though AFD is still undeniably fugly, so don't do that unless you're desperate. )''</small> |
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--[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 19:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:Kim, AFD and DRV are insanely centralized and work fine. How many policy changes do you think we'll have up for discussion at any given time? 4? 5? One central page, slap them in as transclusions, use our standard archive templates when done. One transcluded page that lists historical proposals under Kiril's model, and that's it. An archive Misza bot for the main talk page (I can copy this from any of hundreds of pages). Imagine AFD if it had 10 submissions a month, but each discussion was 3-4 weeks long. THat would be blissfully little work. Can you explain ''why'' centralization here would be "a prohibitive amount of effort"? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 19:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:: If you think AFD is centralized, well, it started out that way, yes. But they then use all kinds of tricks to decentralize the system, and split it back out. (including transclusion, templates, and bots). If they didn't, it'd be dead. Admittedly, that's part of what you're proposing, I suppose... it's still horrendously complex. Can you really not imagine a simpler system? I sure can! :-) |
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:: In the case of DRV, that's both centralized and utterly utterly irrevocably lost. It's the worst rules-lawyering on all of wikipedia. Possibly that's why it still hasn't collapsed. Rules-lawyering does scale somewhat. |
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:: If the current rate of policy change is kept up, there would actually be 10's-100's per day, of which most are resolved instantly. |
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:: Of course, your current proposal seriously curtails that kind of maintenance activity in the first place, because it raises the threshold to a point where it's no longer worth the effort to make minor updates. |
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:: *sigh* |
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:: It's actually quite amazing to see the difference between the discussion pages at [[Wikipedia talk:Consensus]] and [[Wikipedia talk:Governance reform]]. Also the difference in edit-rate. Which page would you rather be participating at? :-) --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 19:56, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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Oh, Oh! Very darn important point. And before I forget (I don't want to forget, it's important) Especially important when you clash with someone... |
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<straightens self out> |
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<clears throat> |
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Despite occasionally disagreeing, I want to point out that I respect your effort and your dedication in this particular area. You have been working really really hard, and you've been thinking hard, <small>and you've been putting up with this hard-ass crazy perfectionistic dutch guy all day.</small>. |
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Even if we disagree, that doesn't mean I think you're stupid, and I'm not intentionally giving you a hard time... it's just, we apparently disagree somewhat strongly on what direction to take. |
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I hope we can continue to work together and find a solution that's useful to both of us. :-) |
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--[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 00:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== I already replied == |
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I've already replied to your comment, so altering it is not helpful and considered bad form per [[WP:TALK]]. Just a heads up. [[User:Hiding|Hiding]] <small>[[User talk:Hiding|T]] </small> 20:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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: Missed your reply at first, sorry. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 20:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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::No harm done. [[User:Hiding|Hiding]] <small>[[User talk:Hiding|T]] </small> 21:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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==[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/CAMERA lobbying]]== |
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An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/CAMERA lobbying|here]]. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/CAMERA lobbying/Evidence]]. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/CAMERA lobbying/Workshop]]. |
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On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Rlevse|<span style="color:#060;">'''''R''levse'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:27, 29 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Fritzl case == |
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Please see the article talk page. There was emerging consensus on the rename, and including the word "incest" in the title was not part of that. [[User:Harry the Dirty Dog|HtD]] ([[User talk:Harry the Dirty Dog|talk]]) 16:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== votes on Reqests for remedies == |
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There's a straw poll on whether to mark [[Wikipedia:Requests for Remedies]] as rejected. You might want either to vote, or at least explain whether you want to carry on on that proposal or start a new one.[[User:Ben Standeven|Ben Standeven]] ([[User talk:Ben Standeven|talk]]) 06:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Zordrac/Daniel Brandt]] == |
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Could you take a look at my close of this and let me know your thoughts? I'd appreciate a second opinion. Cheers, [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''<font color="#000088">Ry<font color="#220066">an<font color="#550044"> P<font color="#770022">os<font color="#aa0000">tl</font>et</font>hw</font>ai</font>te</font>''']] 01:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:No objections, as nom. It's fine under policy and IAR. :) <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 01:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::Just seeing the header in my watchlist made me want to run and vote for a speedy. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 01:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Well that looks like three votes to nill. I should probably get back to the English local elections given all this talk of voting :-) [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''<font color="#000088">Ry<font color="#220066">an<font color="#550044"> P<font color="#770022">os<font color="#aa0000">tl</font>et</font>hw</font>ai</font>te</font>''']] 02:01, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Ahh, yes, that does explain your being up at this late hour. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:03, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::I'm not sure how much coverage you get down your neck of the woods, but my party (the tories) are doing bloody well. Current standings are; Conservatives 44%, Lib dems 25%, Labour 24%. That's +124 councillors to the tories, -108 councillors to labour and +1 councillors to the lib dems. [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''<font color="#000088">Ry<font color="#220066">an<font color="#550044"> P<font color="#770022">os<font color="#aa0000">tl</font>et</font>hw</font>ai</font>te</font>''']] 02:08, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::Sorry Lawrence for the invasion, but squeak - [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2008/local_elections_2008/default.stm this] is good to catch up on the latest news, although I'm sure you're already up to date. [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''<font color="#000088">Ry<font color="#220066">an<font color="#550044"> P<font color="#770022">os<font color="#aa0000">tl</font>et</font>hw</font>ai</font>te</font>''']] 02:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:I get very good coverage, thanks to the internet, and I am a Boris fan myself (my company is in London). Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:21, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::I've always been a big fan of Boris - it's just a pitty he's not running for prime minister in a couple of years - he'd be great. [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''<font color="#000088">Ry<font color="#220066">an<font color="#550044"> P<font color="#770022">os<font color="#aa0000">tl</font>et</font>hw</font>ai</font>te</font>''']] 02:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Boris? You commies! I kid. You and all your odd powdered wig and ruff wearing politicos! <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 03:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Last time I looked our politicos wore the same sober suits as yours. And its the other side that are the "commies", [[Ken Livingstone|Red Ken]] and [[Gordon Brown|Brown Gordon]]. But talking of real lefties, [[Hugo Chávez]] celebrated today (the day of the workers pretty much everywhere outside America) not merely by nationalising the iron and steel industry but by raising the minimum wage 30%. That really got me going, not because I love poverty in Latin America but because you have to support job creation and not just pander to those who want something for nothing. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 03:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:Unfortunately for me, this involves Brandt, or else I would have an objection to it. Don't get me wrong, I do still object to the deletion, but making it an issue won't do me any good, considering people freak out simply because of the attached subject matter. My proposal [[Wikipedia talk:User page#Proposal to not delete talk pages for all indef users|here]] sums it up a bit. This should have been discussed at the MfD. Drama is a minor annoyance that quickly passes, even when it involves really recent issues with a highly respected user. We shouldn't quit doing the correct thing simply because it's a bit difficult. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 05:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== [[:Image:ITALICS LAWRENCE.png]] == |
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Congratulations...one of the funnier ANI threads in recent memory! ''[[User:Dihydrogen Monoxide|dihydrogen monoxide]]'' <small>([[User talk:Dihydrogen Monoxide|H<sub>2</sub>O]])</small> 11:03, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Gina Bold == |
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Hi! Could you take a look at the response that was posted on the talk page of [[Gina Bold]]? It seems that this is due to some off-wiki dispute. I cannot deny the suspecions of censorship that were posted there but it needs more eyes. This has the potential to become a real conflict and I don't deal well with those. It requires tact and a calm approach to the situation - in other words someone like you rather than me! Cheers, [[User:EconomicsGuy II|EconomicsGuy]] ([[User talk:EconomicsGuy II|talk]]) 15:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== More Eisenstein == |
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Hello again Lawrence. In case you wanted to work on more Eisenstein film articles after Bezhin Meadow, I just started ''[[¡Qué viva México!]]'' with the intentions of filtering the detail about this film from the [[Sergei Eisenstein|Eisenstein]] article to its own. I got sidetracked trying to get this article on the main page as a DYK on ''Cinco de Mayo'' but that failed. I'll be at the library researching for it tomorrow, and sourcing an anons contributions- so expect it to be changing over the next few days, to meet DYK standards by May 10th. We'll see what happens from there. Any advice from you or contributions by you would be greatly appreciated, time and interest permitting. Regards,[[User_talk:DVD R W|dvdrw]] 04:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Two random cents of advice for you to consider == |
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DNFT, and, as you do aspire to become an admin, I wouldn't recommend that you in any way express fake empathy as an option (even if you do not advocate it) - it's how some people game the system as it is. Just a thought anyway - [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 16:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:I don't advocate fake empathy at all--I'm just dumbfounded that someone who so plainly wants to be "right" as Tango is doing it so horribly. Kudos to him for sticking to his guns, as flawed as they are, I suppose. And as for being an admin, like I said on my RFA, I want/wanted to be an admin so that I can do my fair share of the toilet work, is all. Admins are not entitled to any power. I wield more "power" as a regular editor than as an admin already since I can work in any capacity on any article, something an admin cannot do if they are involved in a situation. Thanks, though... <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Oops! == |
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[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Brandt_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29_2|Beat you to it]] by about a second :) - [[User:Alison|<span style="color:#FF823D;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;cursor:help">'''A<font color="#FF7C0A">l<font color="#FFB550">is</font>o</font>n'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Alison|❤]]</sup> 16:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:Great minds, etc. :) <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== BLP claims and other issues == |
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BLP 3RR is meant for situations where the is a clear BLP problem, such as negative unsourced content. It does not apply when there is a disagreement in good faith between editors. And frankly Lawrence you still haven't explained what you object to in my compromise form other than what amounts to giving in to <BLP VIOLATION BY JOSHUAZ REFACTORED> at the cost of building a good encyclopedia. Finally, your persistence in engaging in what amount to gratuitous ad hominem attacks that have no bearing on the subject in question is getting a bit tiresome. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] ([[User talk:JoshuaZ|talk]]) 16:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:''"other than what amounts to giving in to terrorism at the cost of building a good encyclopedia"'' |
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:That mindset and language, clear proof that some people view this Brandt matter as some conflict or battle, is ''precisely'' the problem and reason why all those people need to stay the hell away from his issues to let the neutral people handle it. Why are your services in regards to Brandt even needed anymore? What do you have to offer besides calling a BLP subject a terrorist, which is surely a BLP violation? If you do it again I ''will'' report you. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Canvassing == |
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I'd appreciate you not engaging in canvassing in regards to [[Talk:Brandt]]. It's simply going escalate the situation. -- [[User:Kendrick7|Kendrick7]]<sup>[[User_talk:Kendrick7|talk]]</sup> 16:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:I canvassed nothing; Thatcher is a neutral administrator, an Arbcom clerk, and previously involved when users last attempted to game DRV in the Brandt case. I play by the rules of Wikipedia. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::Game? [[User:QuackGuru|<span style="border:solid #408 1px;padding:1px"><span style='color:#20A;'>Q</span><span style='color:#069;'>ua</span><span style='color:#096;'>ck</span><span style='color:#690;'>Gu</span><span style='color:#940;'>ru</span></span>]] 16:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::What? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:50, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Involved editors do not attempt to game DRV in the Brandt case. [[User:QuackGuru|<span style="border:solid #408 1px;padding:1px"><span style='color:#20A;'>Q</span><span style='color:#069;'>ua</span><span style='color:#096;'>ck</span><span style='color:#690;'>Gu</span><span style='color:#940;'>ru</span></span>]] 16:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::What? The decision was made that there is to be no [[Daniel Brandt]] per DRV. There is therefore no authorization for the existence of a piped blue link here nor a red link, which cannot be recreated anyway into an article without a new authorization from DRV. I have no opinion on the plain text version, but I note many other users (Alison, Fozzie, others) are opposed to that as well. Therefore, I do not see how there is any consensus for Daniel Brandt content here on this page. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::Daniel Brandt is banned. He said he wanted the redirect deleted. Anyone who open proxy edits for a banned user is blockable (IMHO). [[User:QuackGuru|<span style="border:solid #408 1px;padding:1px"><span style='color:#20A;'>Q</span><span style='color:#069;'>ua</span><span style='color:#096;'>ck</span><span style='color:#690;'>Gu</span><span style='color:#940;'>ru</span></span>]] 17:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::::Are you accusing me of proxy editing for a banned user and that I should be blocked? Does that extend to everyone (100+ people) that agreed with that same viewpoint on the DRV? Rules help us, they don't make us mentally handicapped. Because a banned user wants something, if everyone happens to agree with him, we do it. His "banned" status is meaningless in the grand scheme. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 17:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::::Please [[WP:CHILL]]. Good luck anyhow. [[User:QuackGuru|<span style="border:solid #408 1px;padding:1px"><span style='color:#20A;'>Q</span><span style='color:#069;'>ua</span><span style='color:#096;'>ck</span><span style='color:#690;'>Gu</span><span style='color:#940;'>ru</span></span>]] 17:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::::If there is a lack of consensus for the redirect and when the wikidrama does not benefit the project it may be best to AFD the remaining related articles per [[WP:IAR]]. Wikipedia as a whole needs to move on from this. An executive decision can be made by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve this matter too. [[User:QuackGuru|<span style="border:solid #408 1px;padding:1px"><span style='color:#20A;'>Q</span><span style='color:#069;'>ua</span><span style='color:#096;'>ck</span><span style='color:#690;'>Gu</span><span style='color:#940;'>ru</span></span>]] 23:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::::::No, under its Sec 230 liability protection, the foundation cannot make a binding decision in this matter. It can prevent defamation, slander, etc, but it can't decide on non-violative content, otherwise it loses liability protection. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 23:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Moving forward an AFD for PIR may be the best decision. [[User:QuackGuru|<span style="border:solid #408 1px;padding:1px"><span style='color:#20A;'>Q</span><span style='color:#069;'>ua</span><span style='color:#096;'>ck</span><span style='color:#690;'>Gu</span><span style='color:#940;'>ru</span></span>]] 23:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== May 2008 == |
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<s>[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|30px|]] You currently appear to be engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit war|edit war]]{{#if:Fritzl incest case|  according to the reverts you have made on [[:Fritzl incest case]]}}. Note that the [[Wikipedia:Three-revert rule|three-revert rule]] prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the [[Wikipedia:Three-revert rule|three-revert rule]]. If you continue, '''you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing'''. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. If necessary, pursue [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]]. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}}<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> ''You are also on the threshold of 3RR. I gave HtD the same warning. You are both well-established editors that should know better than to engage in this kind of unproductive edit-warring.'' [[User:Jaysweet|Jaysweet]] ([[User talk:Jaysweet|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)</s> |
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:BLP issues are immune to 3rr. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:50, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::Yes and no. I can't just revert whatever I want and say "BLP! BLP!" and that makes it okay. However, if you feel confident that your BLP concerns will be judged as unquestionable by the community, revert away. (My thinking is that if you go beyond three reverts, you are making a bet that whatever admin might review a 3RR report on you will unequivocally agree with your position. If you are confident in that bet, you know, go for it I guess...) --[[User:Jaysweet|Jaysweet]] ([[User talk:Jaysweet|talk]]) 16:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Trust me, I don't want to edit war or enjoy it, because its stupid. But doing the right thing is more important, if push ever comes to shove. And the right thing is erring in favor of BLP victims. :( <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 16:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::I respect your position -- if I didn't, I'd be a hypocrite, as I have exceeded three reverts in the past for similar reasons. (and in one case, I actually ''did'' get reported to ANI/3RR, which luckily was immediately dismissed as a bad faith report) Best of luck to you if it comes down to that! --[[User:Jaysweet|Jaysweet]] ([[User talk:Jaysweet|talk]]) 17:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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After further review, I have to apologize. I was aware there was an ongoing discussion about the address and BLP concerns, but I had not monitored it closely. When HtD asserted there had been a consensus to include, I took what he said at face value. While I understand that ''in theory '' BLP overrides consensus, that would have made me very leery about exceeding three reverts (after all, unless you are counting on Foundation intervention, consensus will ultimately determine whether you get blocked/unblocked or not, right?) |
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But now that I actually look at the section, I actually see the ''reverse'' of what HtD said, I see a rapidly-developing consensus against inclusion of the address. So seeing as you had both BLP ''and'' consensus on your side, there's absolutely no question about the validity of exceeding three reverts in that case. My apologies for missing that. --[[User:Jaysweet|Jaysweet]] ([[User talk:Jaysweet|talk]]) 17:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:Absolutely positively no need to apologize, Jaysweet. "Shit happens" is one my mantras. :) <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 18:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== 3RR Warning == |
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Count [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandt&action=history the number of your reversion here] and compare to the daily limit set forth at [[WP:3RR]]. See what I'm getting at? [[User:Odd nature|Odd nature]] ([[User talk:Odd nature|talk]]) 17:20, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:2rr, but it's protected now (and this is arguably a BLP issue anyway). I know, though. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 17:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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==So how's the weather?== |
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Around here, it's a lovely spring afternoon. Just the ticket for a nice walk - if only I could get away from driving the desk. I see the forsythia are in full bloom; if I could, I'd spend a little time enjoying their fragrance. There is much to be said for keeping things dialed well below 11. Best, [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 19:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:[[The Brady Bunch|I think I'll go for a walk outside now, the summer sun's calling my name...]] <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 19:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::Its high summer here, the height of the dry season and stiflingly hot. Thanks, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 19:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:: I think a walk is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:FloNight&diff=prev&oldid=210632641 just what's needed right now]. FWIW, I feel the same way, so I think I'll take a stroll in the beautiful California sunshine :) - [[User:Alison|<span style="color:#FF823D;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;cursor:help">'''A<font color="#FF7C0A">l<font color="#FFB550">is</font>o</font>n'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Alison|❤]]</sup> 19:48, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Heh, I wish I could talk a walk, but I only get paid if I'm sitting at the front desk. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 19:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Thank You! m(__)m (<-japanese bowing symbol) == |
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For some subjective reason, some specific editors are trying to undermine the Adeyto article and if there wouldn't have been the Golden Week days in Japan, I would have been able to keep up with their deletions and with reasearching sources and adding so called "facts". So I want to personally thank you for keeping up the Objectivity of that article and just as you said, Wikipedia doesn't need any citation for every single line written in it. In fact I believe such citations are close to irrelevant for the reason that the citations come from just other websites not from God himself, and those sites in turn might change address, directory, so the once useful "proofs" might move or disappear again and then all starts from scratch in an endless battle of the human kind against human kind... Thanks again! [[User:Tsurugaoka|Tsurugaoka]] ([[User talk:Tsurugaoka|talk]]) 13:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:I don't know if it's that deep of an issue but it does seem like there is a sour grapes factor which is not acceptable. Anyone who plays game with encyclopedia content for any reason is on the short road to blockville. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 15:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::right. and it makes me wonder why pple have nothing better to do with their lives and keep wasting it like this one minute at a time. [[User:Tsurugaoka|Tsurugaoka]] ([[User talk:Tsurugaoka|talk]]) 15:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
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PS. Actually that article had tons of links for references but someone erased them all saying it's too many. And now they erase the article saying it's not enough linked.[[User:Tsurugaoka|Tsurugaoka]] ([[User talk:Tsurugaoka|talk]]) 15:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:What old version had all the references to third party websites (not Adeyto's sites)? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 15:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::as far as I remember must be one of the versions BeForE GUY killed it. It had no references at the bottom of the article like now but link references in text, to names, people and organisations. |
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[[User:Tsurugaoka|Tsurugaoka]] ([[User talk:Tsurugaoka|talk]]) 14:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Adeyto == |
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Always remember that IMDb is not a [[:WP:RS|reliable source]]. --[[User:Orangemike|<font color="darkorange">Orange Mike</font>]] | [[User talk:Orangemike|<font color="orange">Talk</font>]] 14:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:Always remember that for utterly trivial things like "did someone appear in a production?" it is generally considered acceptable. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 14:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Thank you == |
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I've just started an article about [[Heti Világgazdaság|one of the sources]] I've used, I hope it seems reliable enough. [[User:Squash Racket|Squash Racket]] ([[User talk:Squash Racket|talk]]) 05:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC) |
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==''Signpost'' updated for May 2nd and 9th, 2008.== |
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! [[Image:WikipediaSignpostHead.svg|center|500px|The Wikipedia Signpost]]<font style="position: relative; top: .3em; font-size: 250%;">'''Weekly Delivery'''</font> |
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{{s-s|2|0|2008-05-02|From the editor|From the editor}} |
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{{s-s|2|1|2008-05-02|Board restructuring|Wikimedia Board to expand, restructure}} |
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{{s-s|2|2|2008-05-02|Arbitrator resigns|Arbitrator leaves Wikipedia}} |
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{{s-s|2|3|2008-05-02|BAG, CU nominations|Bot approvals group, checkuser nominations briefly held on RfA}} |
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{{s-s|2|4|2008-05-02|WikiWorld|WikiWorld: "World domination"}} |
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{{s-s|2|5|2008-05-02|News and notes|News and notes: Board elections, milestones}} |
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{{s-s|2|6|2008-05-02|In the news|Wikipedia in the News}} |
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{{s-s|2|9|2008-05-02|Technology report|Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News}} |
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| align="left" | '''Volume 4, Issue 19''' || align ="center" | '''[[9 May]] [[2008]]''' || align="right" | '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/About|About the Signpost]]''' |
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{{s-s|2|5|2008-05-09|Dispatches|Dispatches: Featured content from schools and universities}} |
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<small>You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Tools/Spamlist|''Signpost'' spamlist]]. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. [[User:Ralbot|Ralbot]] ([[User talk:Ralbot|talk]]) 07:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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==POV folks NOT WELCOME HERE== |
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from you: |
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<blockquote> |
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'''This sort of mindset is completely incompatible with Wikipedia's ethos.''' People here for an advocacy role are a problem, as we follow WP:NPOV. '''Pro-Israeli, Pro-Jew (I'm a Jew), Pro-Palestinian, Pro-Arab points of view are garbage and not welcome here'''. Whomever "infiltrated" this '''nest of editors''' did us a great service, unfortunately. I suspect your edits are now going to be reviewed in short order. Lawrence Cohen § t/e 20:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) |
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[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents/Wikilobby_campaign&diff=207447892&oldid=207447036] |
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</blockquote> |
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Perhaps you want to check out the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notice_board_for_Palestine-related_topics Noticeboard for Palestine-related topics] which is distinctly Pro-Palestinian, has requests for other editors to check out articles, to help create consensus for articles, as well as suggestions to create articles essentially as attack pages. Maybe you will send them a little note of unwelcome. Thank you.[[User:Dajudem|Juanita]] ([[User talk:Dajudem|talk]]) 05:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== RE: Jimbo Wales' talk page: Encryption == |
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Hi there. I have posted a reply to a section in which you have contributed to on [[User talk:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]]'s talk page. Please see [[User talk:Jimbo Wales#board privacy resolution and encryption]] for the discussion. Thank you and happy editing! — [[User:E|<span style="color:#003366;font-weight:bold">E</span>]] <span style="color:#ED9121">↗[[User talk:E|<sup>T</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/E|<sup>C</sup>]][[Wikipedia:BAG|<sup>B</sup>]]</span> 08:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Bulbasaur == |
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I'm not going to spend time defending TTN for this one, but I will point out that reference list on [[Bulbasaur]] is nearly a hoax. Yes, it has a myriad of references. All of them are to official game guides, graphic novels, official Nintendo publications, etc. So far as I have ever been able to track down, the only mention Bulbasaur has ever received in an independent, third-party publication is a one-liner using him as an example of how Japanese names like Fushigidane ("mysterious bulb") were translated into English. There is a current merge discussion open, and I'm pushing pretty hard to get it back as a redirect.[[User:Kww|Kww]] ([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 20:18, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:The wider community, though, seems to have no problem with the existence of these articles. Only a very small group seems to be offended by them, and goes out of their way to remove them. Are we going to next go after all the fiction articles for characters from Star Wars, Dr. Who, comic books like Iron Man and X-Men, and who knows what else? I simply don't understand the rationale behind this. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 20:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::For me, it's a strong desire to see Wikipedia consist of information sourced by independent sources, with the bare minimum of original research and direct sourcing necessary. I spend most of my effort in the pop-culture area, cleaning out gossip and rumours from the celebrity and music side of the encyclopedia. It grew out of vandal-fighting, and I do it for essentially the same reasons. I don't object to Bulbasaur because he's an anime character ... I'm quite happy with characters like Astro Boy and Speed Racer having their own article, because it is possible to write an article about them relying wholly on independent sourcing. I get mixed feelings when I start to see articles that seem well done, but rely on a mix of independent sourcing and primary sourcing. When the article relies 95%-100% on primary sourcing, and there is no reason to believe that independent sources can be found, I think we are better off without having the article at all.[[User:Kww|Kww]] ([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 20:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Fair enough. I suppose I would be in the camp of usefulness to readers outweighing other concerns on fiction articles. Just picking out some random stuff from following links from summer movies this year, I find [[Rick Jones (comics)]] and [[Thunderbolt Ross]] from Hulk and [[Pepper Potts]] from Iron Man. By those standards, all three would be gone. Isn't utility to readers more important in cases of fiction? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 21:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::::How is it any more useful to have an article on Rick Jones than it is too have, say, a recipe for strawberry shortcake? Usefulness isn't a criteria to use in judging whether something belongs in an encylopedia.[[User:Kww|Kww]] ([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 00:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== BLP == |
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Alright, I'm going to take a break from BLP now. The kinds of questions I've been asking should have been fairly straightforward, but obviously, they weren't. The fault for that is at least as much with myself as with the people trying to answer them. I should find better ways to approach this kind of query. |
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I see how BLP and Governance reform are related now. I found it somewhat distressing that you made several assumptions about me that simply weren't true, and I wasn't entirely sure how to reassure you of that fact. |
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BLP is certainly a strange place, and I can now see why Kirill is pushing governance reform. I think I actually agree less with his solution than before though, because I get the feeling that all policy pages will then end up like BLP, or possibly worse. |
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--[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 05:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:Honestly? That massive pointless to-and-fro on the BLP page today would be completely avoided under Kirill's model. If someone puts up a change that is unneeded or undesired, it will be quickly and efficiently slapped down. If it's a change that is needed, accurate, or desired, it will be raised up quickly and efficiently. How is that not possibly better? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 05:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:: The Kirill model would make a lot more discussions work like at BLP, I think. Before people who have been trying to work with the prescriptive type model showed up, this kind back-and-forth didn't really happen that often. <scratches head> And I've never seen it this bad before, it's quite amazing. |
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:: I'm going to go and ponder on this. --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 06:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Kim.. Kiril's model will be the exact opposite of today. 1. Here's my change. 2. Here's what we think of that change/concurrent non-binding discussion below that to sway each other. 3. X days later, based on discussions in #2, we all say I support it/I don't. 4. Consensus is judged on #3, and off we go. How is that not neater and easier? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 06:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:::: Well, check out editing procedures for say [[WP:SR]] (old page, blow off the dust and see editing history), or [[WP:CONSENSUS]] :-). Those are actually simpler yet. |
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:::: The problem I had with WP:BLP is the tremendous backpressure I felt there, like trying to swim upstream towards a fire hydrant. It'd be totally amazing if it wasn't so darn scary to be there. :-/ --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] ([[User talk:Kim Bruning|talk]]) 06:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Re: FYI, governence reform == |
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Well, that'd certainly be interesting to see, although I expect the people against any such reform would show up in force. |
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If I'm not mistaken, [[User:Sarcasticidealist|Sarcasticidealist]] is running for the Board on a platform that includes pushing for effective project governance, incidentally; so perhaps that'll lead to something useful as well. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill]] <sup><small>([[User:Kirill Lokshin/Professionalism|prof]])</small></sup> 13:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC) |
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==''Signpost'' updated for May 12th, 2008.== |
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! [[Image:WikipediaSignpostHead.svg|center|500px|The Wikipedia Signpost]]<font style="position: relative; top: .3em; font-size: 250%;">'''Weekly Delivery'''</font> |
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| align="left" | '''Volume 4, Issue 20''' || align ="center" | '''[[12 May]] [[2008]]''' || align="right" | '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/About|About the Signpost]]''' |
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{{s-s|2|1|2008-05-12|Pornography|Explicit sexual content draws fire}} |
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{{s-s|2|2|2008-05-12|Sighted revisions|Sighted revisions introduced on the German Wikipedia}} |
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{{s-s|2|3|2008-05-12|Copyright claim|Foundation receives copyright claim from church}} |
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{{s-s|2|4|2008-05-12|Policy updates|Board to update privacy policy, adopts data retention policy}} |
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{{s-s|2|5|2008-05-12|Citizendium 2|Update on Citizendium}} |
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{{s-s|2|6|2008-05-12|Board elections|Board candidacies open through May 22}} |
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{{s-s|2|7|2008-05-12|Maker Faire|Two wiki events held in San Francisco Bay Area}} |
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{{s-s|2|8|2008-05-12|IP block exemption|New feature enables users to bypass IP blocks}} |
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{{s-s|2|9|2008-05-12|WikiWorld|WikiWorld: "Tony Clifton"}} |
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{{s-s|2|10|2008-05-12|News and notes|News and notes: Autoconfirmed level, milestones}} |
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{{s-s|2|11|2008-05-12|In the news|Wikipedia in the News}} |
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{{s-s|2|12|2008-05-12|Dispatches|Dispatches: Changes at Featured lists}} |
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{{s-s|2|13|2008-05-12|Features and admins|Features and admins}} |
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{{s-s|2|14|2008-05-12|Technology report|Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News}} |
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{{s-s|2|15|2008-05-12|Arbitration report|The Report on Lengthy Litigation}} |
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| align="left" | '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Home]]''' | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives|Archives]] | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom|Newsroom]] | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions|Tip Line]] | [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Tools/Single|Single-Page View]] |
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| align = "right" | <small>[[Wikipedia:Shortcut|Shortcut]] : [[WP:POST]]</small> |
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<small>You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Tools/Spamlist|''Signpost'' spamlist]]. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. [[User:Ralbot|Ralbot]] ([[User talk:Ralbot|talk]]) 10:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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== what if == |
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what if an editor inserts wrong information once or twice a week. Is this sneaky vandalism? [[User:BVande|BVande]] ([[User talk:BVande|talk]]) 23:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC) |
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:If he keeps it up and is disruptive, he gets blocked eventually. You think we have the manpower or motivation to track this across 2 million articles? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">[[User:Lawrence Cohen|Lawrence Cohen]] § [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|t]]/[[:Special:Contributions/Lawrence_Cohen|e]]</font></span> 23:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC) |
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