User talk:Roger Davies

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 09:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Topic ban for Brews

I don't think this will work well, as the problems with Brews' editing are not really topic related. An important issue is that Brews editing style (particulary failure to adapt that when faced with opposition) brings him into conflict with a few editors because he typicaly chooses to edit in certain small subfields of physics and math. As I tried to explain to Brews, he would be better off editing one of the many other topics within physics or math.

Then just as the last time, what the topic ban paradoxically does is actually make exercising that option to move away from the problem area more difficult. E.g. he could now start to edit an article on, say, determinants and then the whole brouhaha with Blackburne could start all over again.

There are articles that need expansion and there Brews is doing fine, e.g. at Fourier transform he is collaborating in a productive way. Then this suggests that a restriction for Brews that will work is a mentoring agreement; Brews must be given permission to edit some article on Wikipedia (regardless of the topic).

The articles where he can edit are easily identifiable, because I have rarely faced the kind of opposition Brews is facing, yet I have a similar editing style. I just happen to be better at moving away from articles where my editing efforts would be less welcome. So, if you make me such a mentor of Brews, I doubt ArbCom will ever hear about any problems about him again. Count Iblis (talk) 16:00, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your very interesting comments. Perhaps repeating what you've said above on the clarification request will carry weight with my colleagues but I'm out of the door very shortly and not able to progress it myself I'm afraid.  Roger Davies ^talk 16:07, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I've just posted a link from there to here. Count Iblis (talk) 16:17, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Motions: Speed of light (Brews ohare)

Hi Roger: It appears that you posted the motions available on Motions: Speed of light (Brews ohare). I wonder if you might add to these motions the proposal Motion: To limit Talk-page discussions?

I believe this proposal achieves the goal of limiting my Talk-page activity in a better way than the motion Topic ban that seems to be the favored choice at this point. The reason it is better is that the problem is solved on all Talk pages and it is solved in a very straightforward fashion that involves less work for Admins.

As you may be aware, a topic ban is a difficult matter for the general Admin to enforce because there is inevitably a question of content as to what falls within the ban. In the past claims that a ban on physics-related topics included Pythagoras' theorem, a topic in pure mathematics, led to no end of confusion. Confusion also resulted from citing Roger Penrose as a source for a geometry question on the basis that this author was a physicist. These actions of mine were, of course, not in any way disrupting WP, but led to calls for arbitration engendered out of desire to make a point. The present wording identifying "pages of whatever nature about physics and physics-related mathematics, broadly construed" is not better or clearer than the old wording. It can lead to the same problems.

In contrast, Motion: To limit Talk-page discussions is eminently clear cut and easy to apply. It will satisfy all the concerns of ArbCom, and avoid silly calls for arbitration.

So I appeal to you to add this option to the list of motions available to ArbCom in deciding this issue. Brews ohare (talk) 20:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

While I read what you have proposed here with interest, I do not feel sufficiently confident in the outcome to propose it as an alternative. There are always grey areas with topic bans and my take it that it is the responsibility of the topic-banned editor to steer well clear of areas that might prove contentious. Here's a comment from another case, which might prove helpful to you. It's about the Climate change case, but the essential principle holds true.

I'm sure there are no objective criteria that could be laid out without being susceptible to wikilawyering. Instead, I'd suggest a few subjective rules of thumb:

• By making the edit, are you attempting to say something about climate change or about a person with a notable connection to climate change? If so, avoid making the edit.
• If you were to ask a disinterested but knowledgeable and reasonable person which topics were closely related to the article you wanted to edit, would there be a strong possibility that they would mention climate change (or global warming, etc.)? If so, avoid making the edit.
• If a topic-banned opponent in this dispute were to edit the same text you want to edit, would you feel like you'd have a solid basis for accusing them of violating the topic ban? If so, avoid making the edit.

When in doubt, ask someone who will not just tell you what you want to hear -- preferably one of your more reasonable climate change opponents; barring that, a disinterested third party.
Run these rules of thumb past the scenarios offered above and see if there are any that are truly still unclear. alanyst 18:33, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope this helps,  Roger Davies ^talk 22:40, 2 June 2012 (UTC)