Talk:Ljubljana: Difference between revisions
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{{Expand Spanish|Liubliana|topic=geo}} |
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{{WPCities|class=B|importance=top}} |
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{{WikiProject Slovenia|class=B|importance=top}} |
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{{WP1.0|v0.7=pass|class=B|category=Geography}} |
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}} |
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==The main photo== |
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I preferred the previous one... This one isn't that nice. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/95.176.204.60|95.176.204.60]] ([[User talk:95.176.204.60|talk]]) 18:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Ancient Tribes== |
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The tribes mentioned in this article are not consistent with articles elsewhere in Wikipedia. I don't know which articles are incorrect, but the [[Iapydes|Yapodi]] seemed to be further to the SE, the [[Taurisci]] further north, and the [[Illyria|Letobici]] are not mentioned at all. [[Special:Contributions/67.168.59.171|67.168.59.171]] ([[User talk:67.168.59.171|talk]]) 00:07, 4 November 2008 (UTC) |
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==Laburus== |
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I'm asking because I don't know: is there proof that Laburus was an old [[Slavonic]] deity? May have been pre-Slavic. [[User:Alexander 007|Alexander 007]] 09:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC) |
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:[[Anonymus Ravenniensis]] records the names of the [[Ljubija]] and [[Ljubljanica]] rivers as [[Lebra]] and [[Elebra]] (IMO, the latter are less likely to be Latinizations of Slavic forms, but rather records of pre-Slavic forms). [[Ljubljana]] may also derive from a pre-Slavic (non-Slavic) form beginning with ''*Leb-'', later associated by [[folk etymology]] with Slavonic ''ljubiti''. [[User:Alexander 007|Alexander 007]] 10:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC) |
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==Main square== |
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Isn't the main square of Ljubljana Mestni trg (City Square) not Prešeren Square?! |
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:Well, the city hall is on Mestni trg, but Prešeren Square is where the majority of activities happen; concerts, performances etc. |
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:BTW, please sign yourself using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). --[[User:Eleassar|'''Eleassar''']] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 15:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC) |
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==Etymology== |
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This section doesn't mention that ljubljena means beloved in Slovene - I had understood that that was a possible origin of the cities name. Can anyone confirm or deny that? |
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Also, this article really needs references. I've added a tag to it, but I hope it can be got rid of very soon. [[User:Worldtraveller|Worldtraveller]] 16:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC) |
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:And why mention that? Does the meaning of the gerund ''washing'' have any connection to the city of Washington? Does the word ''bär'' have any possible connection to Berlin? Do you see where I'm getting at here? |
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:Anyhow, this fact ''was'' mentioned in an earlier version of the article, and I deleted it and explained the deletion. The explanation is on the top of this page, dated 30th April 2006. I didn't have a user name then so it's an anon edit, but I still stand by it. The Ljubljana-ljubljena connection is a meaningless factoid at best. [[User:TomorrowTime|TomorrowTime]] 10:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
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==Mala Muslimanka== |
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Ljubljana really is home to Mala Muslimanka! |
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:And who is Mala Muslimanka? Any source? --[[User:Eleassar|'''Eleassar''']] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 13:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC) |
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==Window Tax== |
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I heard from a tourist guide that most of the buildings overlooking the river have only 3 windows on each floor, since there was a "window tax" which went much higher if you had a fourth window. Should this be added in the "trivia" ? --[[User:89.164.21.28|89.164.21.28]] 02:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:Interesting, although before it can be posted a source for this claim must be found. [[User:Edolen1|edolen1]] 16:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC) |
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Ahh yes, that medieval tax was actually a tax on light, meaning that the more light that got into your house, the more you would pay. Even a hole in the wall was a possible expense. I was told about this by someone who gives architecture lessons, but I can't give you a source. I also asked if having bars on your windows would make it cost less, and it wouldn't, damn niggards :) [[User:Nerby|Nerby]] ([[User talk:Nerby|talk]]) 15:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC) |
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== pronounciation == |
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I can only hear the end of the word -- does anyone else have any problems with this file?--[[User:Jaibe|Jaibe]] 09:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC) |
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:No problems here. I'm using Winamp, maybe it's a problem with the player you're using? [[User:Edolen1|edolen1]] 14:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC) |
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== Picture == |
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If anyone has a colour picture of the same place in Ljubljana, can they put it instead of the black and white one that's on now?--[[User:CondignFreedom|CondignFreedom]] 12:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC) |
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I agree... someone do that very soon. "Artistic" b/w photos don't belong on Wikipedia.--[[User:Rocky88|Rocky88]] 07:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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I changed it and put up one of my pictures from Ljubljana. [[User:Zweifel|Zweifel]] 05:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Phrasal Verbs == |
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I am taking this terrible conversation and putting it in its own section, rather than at the top. [[User:Zweifel|Zweifel]] 04:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Sinuhe, are you saying that "originates from" is improper grammar and incorrect use? |
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My argument is that Ljubljana developed out of, or from, Ljubljene. Not in Ljubjene. |
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:No, 'originate from' is not '''incorrect''' ''per se'', but ''originate in'' is, I should think, preferable. If something ''comes from'' something else, it ''originates '''in''''' it. This is exactly the definition given by [[WordNet]] 2.0. Longman's ''Dictionary of Contemporary English'' gives ''originate in'' as preferable to ''originate from'' (but lists both); ''Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary'' gives ''originate in'' only. The ''[[Concise Oxford Dictionary]]'' states that ''originate'' is usually followed by either of these or ''with''; ''Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary'' (1913) gives only an example in which ''originate with'' is used. The ''Compact Oxford Dictionary'' gives no collocation for ''originate''; it, however, gives the following definition for ''come from'': ''originate in''. |
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:All in all, while ''originate from'' is acceptable, I see no reason why you changed the perfectly proper ''originate in''. And yes, reading my edit summary, I can see how it can give the impression that I thought ''originate from'' is incorrect – sorry about that. I'd personally always use ''originate in'', though. |
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:: With respect to items other than places, "originate in" sounds extremely to awkward to me. In fact, I've never heard "originate in" used before in the way you did. Howewever, if that style really works in the UK, I will let it be. |
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:I'm afraid I can't make out what you mean by 'My argument is that Ljubljana developed out of, or from, Ljubljene. Not in Ljubjene.' The word ''Ljubljana'' evolved from ''ljubljena''; this means that it originated in the word. You oughtn't to try to apply logic to language; this is a matter of [[collocation]] and [[idiom]]. Also, it can be detrimental to translate phrases from your mother tongue ''verbatim''. |
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::I'm a native English speaker in Canada. Here, 'originate in' and 'originate from' are often used to disambiguate the type of objective cases in 'comes from'. E.g.: |
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::1) originated in = 'comes from' somewhere, as in |
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"football comes from (was invented in) England" |
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::2) originated from = 'comes from' something, as in |
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"ljubljana comes from the word ljubljene" |
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:''Originate out of'' is to the best of my knowledge unheard of; I have not yet come across it except in prose written by non-native speakers. I should advise against using it here; even ''originate from'' is round about a thousand million times better! —[[User:Sinuhe|Sinuhe]] 17:06, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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:: ''Originated out of'' follows from 2) above. |
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:::Whilst I concede that ''originate in'' was meant in the Cambridge dictionary I quoted above in the sense of location (I was somewhat reluctant to include it in the first place for that reason), all other dictionaries seem to utilise ''originate in'' indiscriminately of the sense. I wasn't aware that there was a semantic difference in Canadian usage (and thus likely in American also). I'll be sure to ask my schoolmates from the USA and Ireland (no Canadians any more that I know round here) if they find this use of ''originate in'' unorthodox. Curious though it may seem, I would intuitively say that ''originate from'' implies location rather than the other way round. —[[User:Sinuhe|Sinuhe]] 19:24, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC) |
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oh stop quibling. the whole "the name Ljubljana originates from the word ljubljena" shtick is an outrageous example of popular ethimology. while it makes a nice story to tell the ladies, it's utter nonsense from a linguistic point of view. the story's a marketing stunt, as much as the deal with slovenia being the country with love in it's name is. i don't mind these little anecdotes, but they have no place in an encyclopedia, unless they are mentioned under the trivia section, with an appropriate explanation. i'm deleting the whole "ljubljena" section.[[User:213.172.254.113|213.172.254.113]] 22:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC) |
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---- |
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I have a comment regarding the earliest mention of Ljubljana: ''the first records mentioning Ljubljana by its modern name date to 1144 (by its German name Laibach) and 1146 (by name Luwigana).'' One or two years ago, there was a short notice in the magazine published by the municipality of Ljubljana, stating that an earlier mention of Ljubljana has recently been found, in a document (German, if I remember correctly) that does not have an explicit date but can be dated from circumstantial evidence into the 1120's or thereabouts. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of this could look into this further and perhaps update the article. Additionally, if I understand correctly, these 12th-century mentions are not really of Ljubljana as the town (which did not really exist yet at the time) but only of the castle and/or its owners. [[User:194.249.231.140|194.249.231.140]] 10:51, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC) |
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== Ljubljana Founded By Jason and the Argonauts ??? == |
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Is it true that Slovenians believe that Ljubljana was founded by the mythological Greek prince Jason and the Argonauts. |
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Here is what the Slovenian tourism board website states [[http://www.slovenia-tourism.si/?_ctg_kraji=2611 ]]: |
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'''If one is to believe the legend, then the founder of Ljubljana was the Greek prince Jason, together with his companions, the Argonauts. According to the legend, Jason and the Argonauts, while fleeing from King Aites, from whom they had stolen the golden fleece, sailed from the Black Sea up the Danube, from the Danube into the Sava, and from the Sava into the Ljubljanica. |
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'''Around about here Jason encountered a terrible monster, which he fought and slew. This monster was the Ljubljana dragon, which now has its permanent abode on top of the castle tower on the Ljubljana coat of arms.''' |
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If this is indeed the contemporary theory in Slovenia and is the inspiration of the Ljubljana coat of arms then it should be mentioned in the article. |
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[[User:Struscle|Struscle]] 09:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC) |
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this is not a contemporary theory as far as i know. my guess is, it's an exaggeration basing on an episode from a popular quasi-historical epic novel by [[Janez Jalen]], entitled [[Bobri]], or The beaver-folk. this novel draws pictures in the life of the early hunter/gatherer inhabitants of the Ljubljana area. at one point in the novel, Jason and the Argonauts visit their settlement. as Jalen states at the beggining of the novel, he only examined archeological findings and imagined what life would have been like for the owners of the tools he saw in museums. as for Jason, according to the original myth, he is said to have taken the Argo from the Danube over the shortest distance of land possible to the Adriatic sea, which could also be the slovenia of today. Jalen just built on that. as far as i know, that's the extent of it. [[User:213.172.254.113|213.172.254.113]] 22:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC) |
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And what about Vrhnika? It is an old legend, this of Ljubljana. [[User:86.61.38.30|86.61.38.30]] 01:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Famous native - Janez Janša? == |
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He's not a native. [[User:86.61.38.30|86.61.38.30]] 01:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC) |
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I think it's because he was born in Ljubljana. --[[User:Jonson22|Jonson22]] 20:48, 26 May 2007 (UTC) |
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I don't think that just because he was born in Ljubljana's hospital means he's a native of Ljubljana, his hometown is Grosuplje. That would make most inhabitants of Nova Gorica actually natives of Šempeter, as that's where Nova Gorica's hospital is. [[User:Edolen1|edolen1]] 21:28, 26 May 2007 (UTC) |
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I'll erase it, he doesn't speak with Ljubljana's accent at all. It's from Dolenjska. [[User:89.142.63.212|89.142.63.212]] 19:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC) |
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In the famous native there we have Darko Karapetrovič. Who is Darko Karapetrovič? Anybody knows? I'm from Ljubljana and I never heard about him.--[[User:Jonson22|Jonson22]] 11:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:Beats me, never heard of him. [[User:Edolen1|edolen1]] 18:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::I will delete Darko Karapetrovič. --[[User:Jonson22|Jonson22]] 16:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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== History section? == |
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Didn't there exist a separate history section for Ljubljana, with a timeline? I don't see a link to that anywhere, or am I missing something? [[User:Wikingus|Wikingus]] 14:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC) |
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==Dispute: Year of establishment== |
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Why does the infobox cite the year 15 CE as the year of establishment? AFAIK there is no continuity between Ljubljana and Emona. Any reference? --[[User:Eleassar|'''Eleassar''']] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 12:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC) |
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:As no reference for the continuity between Ljubljana and Emona was provided (and in any case, I've never heard about it although been living in Ljubljana for almost whole my life), I've removed it. --[[User:Eleassar|'''Eleassar''']] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 09:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Sister cities list is inconsistent == |
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This needs some attention. According to the www.sister-cities.org web site, the only city paired with Ljubljana is Cleveland, Ohio. In particular, they list Pueblo, Colorado as sister to Maribor, so this probably needs removed altogether. I am not sure where else an authoritative list of sister cities might exist, but it's worth bringing up that the current list in this article is uncited information. Any insight is appreciated! --[[User:Jmeden2000|Jmeden2000]] ([[User talk:Jmeden2000|talk]]) 15:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC) |
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:My hometown lists them on its corporate website. ([[Thunder Bay, Ontario#Sister cities|link]]) I'd try looking for that information on Ljubljana's website. There are partnership things that cities do that don't involved sister-cities.org and I believe that site required registration, so confirmation can be tricky. Ljubljana's website would probably be the best bet for something accurate. '''[[User:Vidioman|<span style="color:#4B95B5">vıd</span>]][[User talk:Vidioman|<span style="color:#CC5500">ıoman</span>]]''' 15:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== City flag and coat of arms? == |
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Apparently there's a dragon on them, but I have no idea since there's no image of either accompanying the article. Could this oversight be rectified? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/199.111.228.74|199.111.228.74]] ([[User talk:199.111.228.74|talk]]) 05:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Sure, I just put them in. - [[User:Biruitorul|Biruitorul]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Biruitorul|Talk]]</sup></small> 19:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC) |
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== centre?== |
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Two quotations from the article: <br> |
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#"...the first secondary school, public library and printing house opened in Ljubljana.[9] Ljubljana thus became the undisputed centre of Slovenian culture, a position maintained thereafter."<br> |
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#"...the nearby Austrian city of Klagenfurt (Celovec in Slovene) that was, through the centuries, Slovenia's {''sic''!} great spiritual centre."[4] <br>'''???''' - An outside "centre"? --[[User:Marschner|Marschner]] ([[User talk:Marschner|talk]]) 18:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC) |
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== Ehummm? == |
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If Jason put down the dragon, and the dragon is the symbol of Ljubljana, then the symbol instead indicates that the dragon somehow survived and broke free '''to eat''' Jason and the remaining argonauts. Which indicates that it was the benevolent Dragon, not the frank hero/villain that had offended Aphrodite and Hera by dumping Medea, that founded Ljubljana. Maybe that's the best of it, since otherwise Hera and Aphrodite would have probably made ''very nasty things'' towards the city... ... said: [[User:Rursus|Rursus]] ([[User talk:Rursus|'''<span style="color: #CC0044; background: #CCFF88"><sup>m</sup><u>bork³</u></span>''']]) 12:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Dead links== |
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A number of references are dead links (going to http://www.ljubljana.si/en/). --[[User:Eleassar|Eleassar]] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 13:06, 31 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Center/municipality== |
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I find the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ljubljana&action=historysubmit&diff=358637777&oldid=358035988 recent edits] overly technical. A lot of the article deals with the municipality as a whole, not just the city centre. To take one example, I doubt the centre alone has close to 300,000 inhabitants. We shouldn't blur the distinction between the municipality and the center district, but neither should the article try to be ''only'' about the center. - [[Special:Contributions/69.163.222.199|69.163.222.199]] ([[User talk:69.163.222.199|talk]]) 18:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC) |
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