Talk:1638 Ottoman expedition against Kelmendi

Reason for deletion

This article mixes various clashes of Ottomans vs Montengrin and Albanian tribes that took place between 1624 and 1638, in particular when the Ottomans were asked by the local inhabitants to protect them from the raids of the Kelmendi. Those clashes are already mentioned in the Kelmendi and Nora of Kelmendi articles and no "Battle of Kelmendi" is mentioned by any source or on googlebooks. Wafflesvarrg (talk) 14:04, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

1638 Ottoman expedition against Kelmendi

In February 1638, Sultan Murad IV commanded Vučo Pasha, the beylerbey of Bosnia, to lead a 15,000-strong army, composed of soldiers of various origins (Dalmatians, Croats, Serbs, Bulgarians, and Bosnians), to quell unrest in Malësia e Madhe and to punish the local tribes for brigandage. After stopping in Shkodër to receive an additional 1,000 Albanian soldiers, the military expedition entered the the highlands of Kelmendi. The challenging terrain and heavy snowfall compelled the Ottomans to resort to pillaging and razing villages in search of supplies. Anticipating the Ottoman threat, local Kelmendi rebels concealed their families, cattle, and valuables in a grotto in the mountains. Outcome of the campaign differs depending on sources: According to Ottoman historian Mustafa Naima, and to 19th-century French historians Ernest Lavisse and François Lenormant (using Ottoman and Western sources) Kelmendi leaders were caught and beheaded, their heads were then sent to the Sultan in Constantinople, while the surviving members of the tribe were relocated to Pristina and other regions. Austrian historian Spiridon Gopčević writes that starved to death, the Kelmendi surrendered after the death of their leaders Vukodud and Hotaš, and that the majority of the tribe was relocated to Pristina. According to Albanian bishop Frang Bardhi, and to modern Albanian scholars (using Bardhi’s report as source) the Ottoman force found itself encircled and attacked by the Kelmendi, during the confrontation a thousand Ottoman soldiers were killed, leading to the Ottoman force retreat to Bosnia .Wafflesvarrg (talk) 12:32, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for implementing the edits @Wafflesvarrg. I'll chime in and help expand the article at some point this week hopefully. I just wanted to bring up that Vukodud is Vuko Doda recorded by Naima as the tribal leader (knez) of the Kelmendi. Hotash, on the other hand, appears in Naima's narrative as a tribal leader from the Piperi and not the Kelmendi. Following Vučo Pasha's retreat from Kelmend, the Piperi rose up in rebellion which subsequently led the Ottomans leading a raid against the tribe. Lezhjani1444 (talk) 13:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Lezhjani1444, I did not want to assume it was the same people so I left the francized version of names found in the original quotes: knèze Vokodoud” and voïvode Hotasch for Lenormant and Vojvods Vukodud and Hotaš for Gopčević. Wafflesvarrg (talk) 18:27, 9 October 2023 (UTC)