Talk:Benin Altar Tusk/GA1

GA Review

Passed. Aintabli (talk) 22:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Aintabli (talk · contribs) 20:15, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nice article. Here are my preliminary comments:

It is unclear whether this article encompasses one or several (a type of) artifacts. The latter is better for notability sake and appears to be the focus as implied by the short description. However, the second sentence in the lead describes it as a single piece.
The lead is 344 words compared to the article's current total of 1454 words. According to MOS:LEADLENGTH, it is advisable that this article has at most two paragraphs.
Is Denk (2021) WP:SELFPUBLISH? I tried searching the publisher (tredition), and I have gotten the impression that it is a self-published book. The author is a dermatologist but has done some work on the subject. Could you possibly demonstrate the reliability of this source?
Lifshitz (2009) was published by AuthorHouse, also a self-publishing company. Aintabli (talk) 20:15, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli Thanks, I have fixed the lead per MOS:LEADLENGTH. I have also started fixing the fact that there are actually several tusks and not just one. Can I move the article to Benin Altar Tusks? or should wait till after the review?

Denk (2021) and Lifshitz (2009) are indeed self-published sources, I will go ahead and fix those as soon as possible. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have to move the article. The singular title may be the more appropriate one according to WP:PLURAL. Aintabli (talk) 22:11, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's right! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:20, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanderwaalforces, I have checked the sources and their publishers, and they look good. Could you address the "clarification needed" tag and merge some of the standalone sentences into a full paragraph? Aintabli (talk) 22:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli Okay, great then. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:02, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The clarification needed tag is rather confusing to me, because the source cited there clearly clarifies what was mentioned. And, yes, I am planning on reworking the Provenance section entirely in terms of logical flow. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have also done this now. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:34, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to use a lang template for the Edo name appearing in the infobox and the lead. Aintabli (talk) 22:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli Could you please point me to that template that does that? Can't remember from the top of my head. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:08, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

lang-bin Aintabli (talk) 23:22, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I have done this now :) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:23, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanderwaalforces, could you remove or replace Khan Academy and cite the whole book (by Lundén), i. e. remove "Academia.edu", add the publisher, etc.? Aintabli (talk) 16:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, will look into it. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:03, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have now done this one. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:39, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

Commissioned by Oba Osemwende, a ruler of the Benin Kingdom, the tusks feature carved royal figures and scenes depicting power, ritual, and conflict. Verified the part about carvings (Walker). However, I have noticed that there are no page numbers provided with refs to Blackmun's articles. You are also not citing Blackmun (1997b) anywhere. I think this should be sorted out. Aintabli (talk) 16:45, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll look into this too. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli All these are now sorted out. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:52, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Portuguese were the first Europeans to contact the Benin Kingdom in 1485, and they introduced ivory as a commodity to the oba. Not exactly in the source. I can't find an explicit statement about them being the first and that they "introduced" ivory as a commodity. It may also be advisable to link the Portuguese Empire instead of the article about the people here, and perhaps avoid calling "the Portuguese" instead of "the Portuguese people" or "the Portuguese Empire". At least, that is what WP:NCET says, which is about article naming conventions, but the same guideline can be applied to the wording within articles as well, I think.

How do you suggest this sentence should be rephrased, please? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:21, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of saying they were the first, it could go along what the source says, which is that Benin was involved in trade with Europeans, specifically the Portuguese Empire, who arrived in the region in 1485, and they exchanged various items, including ivory. Aintabli (talk) 23:30, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli Plenty thanks, this is done now. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:44, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The tusks underwent maintenance and modification over the centuries. They were washed, bleached, and coated with "orhue," a white clay substance. Verified, but the second ref lacks a page number. Aintabli (talk) 23:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This has been fixed. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:19, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They were sometimes recarved or repaired, adding or removing figures and motifs according to the historical and political context. Verified.
Some of the tusks were damaged or broken during the expedition. Could you provide a quote for this? (Ideally, from both sources .)

@Aintabli: I think I was mixing the two sources there, but I have fixed them now. I changed the above statement to Several Benin artefacts including altar tusks were damaged during the World War II in Europe. which is clearly verified at Nevadomsky, Půtová & Soukup 2014, pp. 84. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:24, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The British soldiers and officers involved in the expedition sold the items to museums and private collectors in Europe. And another quote for this, because one of the refs (Ezra 1992) used for the sentence above was reused here, and when I checked page 51 of Ezra 1992, it appears to be describing the tusks and not the expeditions.

And this one too, it's verifiable at Ezra 1992, p. 25. I couldn't copy the text for quote but it's exactly under "The Pearls Collection" section. Also, at Nevadomsky, Půtová & Soukup 2014, pp. 75, all these verifies that fact Benin’s art reflects one of the great kingdoms of West Africa, a rain forest empire that spanned a millennium. Trade with European merchants found a visual analog in cast brass plaques, portrait heads and standing figures, carved ivory tusks, masks, and bracelets, agate and coral bead regalia, iron swords and war staffs − testimony to contact and expansion. But in 1897 the British invaded the kingdom, sacked the palace, confiscated its art, hanged some chiefs, and exiled the king. Loot from the palace arrived in London. Benin’s art dispersed into museums and private collections offset expedition costs, the largest caches going to the British Museums and the German collections. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:24, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Their presence has led to debates and calls for repatriation by Nigerian authorities and cultural organisations. Verified (by the first ref), but the second ref is also Ezra 1992, p. 51. Aintabli (talk) 00:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I removed Ezra 1992 from here. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:24, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

They symbolised the connection between the ruler and the spiritual realm, emphasising the preservation of Benin traditions. These tusks, adorned with carvings, provide insights into the cultural heritage of the Benin Kingdom. Cuno 2012, p. 17 mentions the tusk, but I cannot find this claim. Maybe a quote could help, and the page number might be wrong (could be the next page).

@Aintabli: Replaced it with Blackmun 1997, p. 152. which says The motifs carved upon the ivories are only one part of a potent ensemble designed to furnish a point of contact not only between the reigning king and his newly deified predecessor, but also with his ancestral lineage of divine rulers and other spiritual forces guiding the kingdom. and removed These tusks, adorned with carvings, provide insights into the cultural heritage of the Benin Kingdom. entirely.--Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:59, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Based on motif-based analysis, this tusk is tentatively dated to the reign of Oba Adolo, circa 1850, suggesting its use on an altar dedicated to a former oba. No mention of Adolo on Ezra 1992, p. 51, but it is instead mentioned by Petridis. No comment about Maurer, as the ref includes a range of pages for a short general statement. Ezra, specifically page 51, was cited in various places, but I cannot say it was correct most of the time. I think it might be useful to check parts that have multiple refs, because often times, some refs are just extra. Another suggestion I have is that you could try merging this and other standalone sentences to full paragraphs that come before or after. Aintabli (talk) 22:38, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I removed Ezra from here and replaced Maurer with Blackmun 1997, p. 150. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:03, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I think the Ezra issue has been fixed as it is now used only once. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:05, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The motifs on the altar tusks derive inspiration from the history, folklore, and religious beliefs of the Benin Kingdom. Traditionally, each generation of Igbesanmwan artists inherits specific motifs from their predecessors, who were members of the Igbesanmwan guild. Carvers also have creative latitude to craft new figures and symbols to honour the current reigning Oba, who commissions the work. Since each ruler is associated with a particular deified predecessor, it is customary to incorporate images related to this former monarch. Additionally, specific motifs may be requested by the Oba himself for inclusion on the tusk. Verified.
Interpreting a Benin altar tusk is an enduring tradition in the Kingdom of Benin. Could not find the part about interpretation as a tradition, could you help me?

This one is more or less a sum up of an expected understanding from the Blackmun 1997 "Reading an altar tusk" section, might not be exactly mentioned. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 07:42, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Contrary to Western reading conventions, where one begins from the top and progresses downward and from left to right, in Benin tradition, the customary method of "reading" a Benin altar tusk involves commencing at the base and moving upward to grasp its intended significance. Verified by the first ref. Could you provide quotes from the other two references? Aintabli (talk) 01:44, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli: I removed Ross and Maurer from here, since Blackmun clearly verifies it. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 07:42, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Benin Altar Tusk was commissioned by Ọba Osemwende, who reigned from 1815 to 1850, and carved by the Igbesanmwan, a royal ivory carving guild. Verified.
It was placed on the ancestral altar of the oba in the Royal Palace of the Oba of Benin in Benin City, and inherited by his successors, including Ovọnramwẹn (Ovọnramwẹn Nogbaisi, circa 1857–1914), who ruled from 1888 to 1897. Not exactly included in the source.

@Aintabli: This was most definitely from one of those museum website, but, I have replaced it with a fact from Blackmun 1997 p. 149. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:23, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will add it back when I find the exact source, can't remember from the top of my head and I'm currently mobile. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:24, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In 1897, the tusk was looted by the British during the Siege of Benin, along with several other Benin Altar Tusks and artefacts. It was sold at Mess. Foster's Auction in July 1931, as part of a collection formerly owned by a member of the Benin expedition, and acquired by Sir Henry Wellcome. In 1965, it was gifted by the Wellcome Trust to the Fowler Museum (then known as the Museum and Laboratories of Ethnic Arts and Technology). Verified, but I think "the British" should be changed in line with how we changed "the Portuguese".

This one is done. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:23, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another Benin Altar Tusk, which was also looted in 1897, was owned by Katherine White Reswick (1929–1980), who resided in Gates Mills, Ohio, US, from at least 1961 to 1968. She donated it to the Cleveland Museum of Art in 1968, where it remains part of the collection. Verified. Aintabli (talk) 18:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Each tusk was supported by a brass-crafted pedestal resembling a crowned head, serving as a central element of shrines, which featured ritual objects and played a central role in ceremonies that bridged the material realm with the realm of spirits and ancestors in Benin's religious and ritual practices. Could you provide a quote from the first source and add a page number or remove the second ref? The second ref is the only remaining ref that is a book and lacks a page number.
You may also move many of the references to Bibliography, especially those that were referenced more than once, ~~such as Kaplan, F.S.; Shea, M.A.; Grey Art Gallery & Study Center (1981).~~ Aintabli (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I replaced both with Blackmun 1997 p. 149. Yeah, I can always move those later :) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:53, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli Actually, what do you mean by the last comment? There are no references to works that are not listed in the Bibliography section. In fact Kaplan, F.S.; Shea, M.A.; Grey Art Gallery & Study Center (1981) is listed there because it is used. Unless I misunderstood your comment. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:16, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Vanderwaalforces, sorry! I mistook that for a full citation. Good catch! :) Aintabli (talk) 20:24, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
chuckles... Oh, okay :) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:26, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe I've checked a good amount of the references. I will start making some minor changes when I see fit and will pass the article in a few hours probably. Aintabli (talk) 20:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli It was enjoyable working with you, you know :) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your contributions to this project. Aintabli (talk) 22:12, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images

As a note, I've checked all four of the current images, and they are all original works of the uploaders. Aintabli (talk) 00:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli I replaced the last image with File:Nigeria, regno del benin, edo, zanna per altare reale, 1810 ca. 01.jpg which is still properly licensed, just letting you know. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:38, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.