Talk:Jonghyun/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: NicklausAU (talk · contribs) 07:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

This will be my first GA review, so please be patient and I will try my best. NicklausAU (talk) 07:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add a Y after each individual issue that is resolved or reply with a disagreement/question to individual issues, if you would like. NicklausAU (talk) 14:16, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

• "began a solo career in January, 2015 with his first extended play album, Base." - shouldn't it be "began a solo career in January, 2015, with his first extended play album, Base."? This sort of error appears multiple times in the article. Fixed by reviewer Y
• MOS:LEAD does not appear to be met due to the short length of only two (more like 1.5) paragraphs. An article of this character count should have 3-4 paragraphs as per MOS:LEADLENGTH. I question whether or not the lead "briefly summarizes the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article" per MOS:INTRO. I would suggest more details about his life. His lengthy involvement with the boy-band Shinee, which is the majority of his professional career, and the seemingly large number of songs he wrote for other artist are hardly mentioned.Y

We can add that "Jonghyun is credited for writing the lyrics for 72 songs and composing the music 53 songs" and how he ventured outside of music making and debuted as a radio host. However, not sure what to write since I have never written a lead section. Need help with this! ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 10:27, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

CherryPie94 I had a go at expanding the lead to briefly cover more of the article, so take a look at it and let me know what you think. NicklausAU 03:23, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

What you wrote is good and summaries the article well. Thanks. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 18:52, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, this is the last point raised by my review, so as you are satisfied with the edit I made and I believe MOS:LEAD is now met, I will pass this nomination. Y NicklausAU 03:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

• "and rookie singer Jino" - I believe his stage name is now "Jinho", and he is a member of the boy group "Pentagon". I would suggest mentioning that and linking the word Pentagon to the article for that group rather than his name. Also, the description of "rookie singer" has no significance in this context. Fixed by nominator Y
• "new versions of old songs by music legends." - "music legends" is a very subjective description labelled as a word to watch in MOS:WTW. I would suggest using it as a direct quotation (I believe the source does use those words) and naming the person or organisation using that description. Y

This is actually following the title of the program, so I can't name a person or organization. I just added the double quotes to music legends. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 09:38, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• "The show subsequently came under fire from viewers, who said the program's elimination method was too harsh." - I only figured out what this meant by reading the source. Its relevance to Jonghyun is not clear in the way it is currently written. Fixed by nominator Y
• "He also participated in the vocal direction for all of the aforementioned songs." - Maybe I'm just uncultured but I'm not completely sure what "vocal direction" means in this context. Is it referring to coaching the artists on how to sing those songs? Based on my own confusion, I would suggest rewording that information. Y

Vocal directors coaches the singer while recording the song. They might ask the singer to increase or lower their pitch or sing in a different way to match the music. Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZwMXoPSiqE ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 09:38, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• "all profits from the album sales to be given to Jonghyun's mother, in addition to establishing a foundation "to help those who are living in difficult circumstances"." - a direct quotation like that last bit requires a source afterwards. citation added by nominator Y
• "found unconscious in his apartment by the police and emergency dispatchers at around 6:10 PM" - I believe emergency dispatchers are the people who answer calls to emergency services, so they would not have found him. I suggest "found unconscious in his apartment by police at around 6:10 PM" Fixed by nominator Y

The source does say "Police and 119 rescue workers" aka police and emergency dispatchers. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

In that case I would suggest "police and rescue workers" then, as the average reader could easily think of the people on the phone. See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_dispatcher NicklausAU (talk) 07:48, 10 July 2018 (UTC) Y

• I would argue that MOS:LAYOUT is also not met due to the large number of single sentence and extremely short paragraphs per MOS:PARA. I would suggest condensing multiple single sentence paragraphs into larger ones or expanding them with additional information to create larger paragraphs with better flow. Y I'm not totally sure it meets MOS:LAYOUT now with my limited experience but I would lean towards yes NicklausAU 03:37, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

I tried expanding and merging sentences. If someone also can help, please do. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 10:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• I found no problems with MOS:EMBED and MOS:FICT does not apply to this article.
• Throughout the article, phrases specific to kpop such as "title track" are used often. It may help the casual reader to use more widely recognized terms such as "single", meaning the same thing. Similarly, the article uses the term "mini-album" which should be changed to the more recognizable term with the same meaning "EP". Fixed by nominator Y

Title track means the song has the same name as the album, it is not a K-pop thing. I changed it in a couple of instances to lead track and kept it as title track when appropriate. Single means the song is not part of an album, therefore, we can change lead tracks and title tracks to singles. Also, there is a difference between EP and mini-album, so I did not change it. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 22:01, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Important to mention - this is not a point of contention relating to any of the 6 specific MoS pages for GA criteria and is not going to impact the nomination process. It was only an observation, which is why it was listed at the bottom below the point relating to the final 2 MoS pages, but I must say that disagree with your information. While both of your points may have been factually accurate in the past, they have changed with the times. Especially the EP vs LP issue, where "LP" was really only used back when everyone had vinyls. NicklausAU (talk) 08:32, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I changed it after noticing the the pages for those alleged mini-albums say EPs instead of mini-albums. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 09:50, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

• Seoulbeats (ref #64) and SBS Pop Asia (ref #89) are considered unreliable sources by the WikiProject Korea group. See WP:KO/RS#UR. While I believe opinions of WikiProject groups are not "rules" that must be followed, I would strongly suggest finding alternate reliable sources. Replaced by Y
• "Jonghyun was the first artist from SM Entertainment to significantly participate in writing, organizing, and composing an album." is, in my opinion, too strong of a statement with too much opinion in it to make without a citation. I have added a citation needed template. Y
• "The album spans various genres, including electro-punk, EDM and R&B." - Opinion statement that should have a citation. Citation needed template added. Fixed by reviewer Y
• Reference #62 (Grace Danbi Hong; Kim JiYeon (April 1, 2016). "SHINee's Jonghyun Involved in Car Accident". CJ E&M enewsWorld via Mwave. Retrieved September 10, 2016.) no longer exists. The link redirects to an empty Mwave screen with no article. Replaced by nominator Y
• All other references checked and are working NicklausAU (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Highest Copyvio is 20.6%, with some similar phrases used. NicklausAU (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): b (focused):

• (Note:this is also in #1 as it applies to both) "The show subsequently came under fire from viewers, who said the program's elimination method was too harsh." - I only figured out what this meant by reading the source. Its relevance to Jonghyun is not clear in the way it is currently written. Fixed by nominator Y
• "He replaced singer Ahn Jung-yeop of Brown Eyed Soul, who had been the host for more than three years." - Not sure if it's relevant to this article who he replaced, and how long she was the host previously. Removed sentence by nominator Y

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

Fair representation without bias:

• WP:NPV Says an article must "represent fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." - Waiting for issues above to be resolved before being passing this part. Some issues refer to possible editorial bias and unreliable sources. Y NicklausAU (talk) 08:14, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

5. It is stable.

No edit wars, etc.:

• There seems to have been edit wars after his death, but they have settled down from what I can see.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

• All images have been reviewed an approved as available under specified license agreement.

7.Overall:

Pass/Fail:

Overall, this is a nice article that I enjoyed reading despite already being familiar with the subject. Currently awaiting response to review and/or fixes to the issues above. NicklausAU (talk) 06:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations CherryPie94! It looks as though you've put a lot of good work into this article.