Talk:Persona 4/GA4

GA Review

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Reviewer: David Fuchs (talk · contribs) 16:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC) Review in progress... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

• Lead:
  • To me this doesn't really summarize the entire article properly, or serve as a good intro. After the basic release info, we get hit with It features a weather forecast system with events happening on foggy days to replace the moon phase system implemented in the previous games, with no discussion about the more basic gameplay mechanics, and then we're right back into talking about remakes. There's a lot of unnecessary extra information about plot and the release, but nothing about the game's development and reception.

• Prose:
  • The prose could use some serious work; a reader's understanding of the topic is hurt by improper or excessive context in some places and no context in others. There's a lot of clunky phrasing that hurts readability as well.
    • For example you could change The game takes place over the course of a traditional Japanese school year.[8] Outside of key events, the protagonist attends school, and can interact with other students and characters, spend time at part-time jobs to earn money, or engage in other activities.[9] to Over the course of a school year, the protagonist can interact with other students and characters, spend time at part-time jobs to earn money, or engage in other activities.[9] — shorten what you can, and don't start bogging down the player until you're going to explain terms (I have no idea what "key events" are.)
    • Another example: each dungeon is of a certain theme, based on the victim that has been kidnapped. could be cut down to each dungeon's theme is based on the kidnapped victim. (I believe these are supposed to be the disappeared people discussed earlier in the section, yes? So why is that link not made clear? Why are we using a different word?)
    • And another: The protagonist is a high school student who has recently moved from a large city to Inaba, where he is to live and attend school for a year.
  • The "Gameplay" section presumes a lot of familiarity with the game that most readers won't actually have. What is a simulation game? What are Personas? The Velvet Room? (I don't see the term until the second paragraph where it is dropped without warning, and we get hit with it three more times before the "persona" section bothers telling us what they are.) What are the "key events" which don't appear to be specifically mentioned either?
  • Given that the plot synopsis gives us more information on the TV World and other aspects of the characters, why not put it before the gameplay? As it is it feels like a retread in places or explaining things way later than they should be in others.
  • The character and plot sections replicate a lot of details; these should be compressed down and summarized better.
  • Who the hell is Ryotaro Dojima?
  • There's a lot on localization—perhaps a bit too much compared to its proportion of importance. Some of it also slips in and out of what could be considered POV language, such as "Risette" was chosen instead as French is considered cute in the west.
  • For large numbers such as those in the Music section, don't write out the words—just use numerals
  • Why does the Legacy, mentions of sequels and adaptations come before discussion of the main topic's reception?
  • More repetitious content: the soundtrack mention in the Reception section
    • If you're mentioning scores in the table, you don't need scores in the prose.
    • RPGFan had expressed hope that attention be given on the localization effort as "homosexuals could certainly take issue with the manner in which they are represented". — what does this actually mean?
• Comments on images and references to come. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 20:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

• Okay, I'm working on the issues. Just for the record, I have never played this game or any of the games in the entire series. I tried to address the issues and clean it up after noticing it was going to fall out of GA status, but I could not react quick enough to fix the sourcing and other issues raised. The article has continued to change an evolve since the fixes, but that is not a bad thing. Though your analysis of the prose issues and some concepts do indicate that gaming jargon has been inserted and that needs explanation. I've begun addressing some of the issues, and I'll comment underneath the list as I go through it. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:40, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

• I've re-read the article and despite not ever playing the game... I don't see any issue with the concepts or the jargon used. Perhaps some of the more obscure terms should be in a terminology section, but there has been a lot of lashback against such sections. Things like the "Velvet Room" are described in the gameplay section. Many of the issues you raised were actually in the Persona subsection, and this is before the plot. Even for your "Who the hell is Ryotaro Dojima?" is answered in the very first line of the plot: "In April 11, 2011, the protagonist arrives in Inaba to live with the Dojimas, consisting of his uncle Ryotaro and his cousin Nanako..." There are definitely some tweaks that need to be done and I've asked for someone who's played the game to assist (so I don't mess it up), but I don't know why two people who have never played the game or even the type of game have such differing conclusions about the content. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 18:57, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

• The Velvet Room is only referred to in the current revision with Social Links grant the player bonuses when creating new Personas in the Velvet Room. The room itself is not introduced or described, and the internal wikilink links to another spot further down in the article that provides no greater elaboration--it just regurgitates what's already stated above. I don't think the article needs a terminology section, it just needs writing that isn't sloppy or imprecise. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 15:06, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Never playing the game is going to count against me, but I'll do some tinkering on its prose. It is not the best. I'll try to fix it. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 16:49, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

• I tried to clean up some of the prose, and removed a few chunks of the localization which was too detailed. I added a condensed section about the development to the lead and made sure to address what the Velvet room was upon its first mention, to eliminate some of the jargon. The soundtrack mention in release is something that I believe should stay, it is a sourced account of different releases - based on what additional "specials" were released - in this case the sound track and t-shirts and such. This is very common amongst more popular titles and franchises, but its not reception on the soundtrack itself. How's it look now? ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:19, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
  • I will take another look today and tomorrow. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 15:37, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
• Ok so the prose looks better; I've still got issues but I suppose it's good enough for GA quality.
  • In terms of Images: Not sure File:P4characters.jpg has enough defense in its FUR. There's some discussion about the characters in the reception but it doesn't really center around their appearance, and there's little on the dev side. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 02:29, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
    • Thanks for reviewing, and I did remove the character image. It is only really useful on its own page for the detailed character list. I tried to cut some of the "Dev" info you found to be crufty, but that's alright I think too. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:44, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
      • Righto, looks much better. I'll do a final pass today. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:45, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
      • On a final lookthrough I don't see any major issues that would interfere with GA standards. I'm passing the article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 17:44, 14 January 2014 (UTC)