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Talk:King Arthur

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Frecklefoot (talk | contribs) at 17:36, 18 September 2003 (removal of The Life of the Mythical Arthur). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

British Spelling

Sjc -- What is this change of center --> centre? Does this mean for this article we will be following the norms for spelling observed on Arthur's native island? :-)

More seriously, it looks like it's time to give this article some better structure. What I propose to do is slice & dice this article into the following topics:

  • The Arthur of History
  • Early Traditions about Arthur (e.g., Welsh, Cornish, Breton traditions, the Wild Hunt).
  • The Romance of Arthur (e.g. Geoffrey of Monmouth, the Grail Quest, etc.)
  • Arthur in Modern Literature

Any objections? llywrch 03:03 Nov 6, 2002 (UTC)

Hi, only just found this talk. Given that there will probably be quotes from (primarily) British sources, I would have thought to centre on a standard British English orthographical standard would make sense in this respect, much as I would defer to say describing Washington as the center of US political process.
But this does need a lot of work. I will try and find some time for it in the days to come. Nice start by the way. user:sjc

I think this is a great idea. It does need more structure. Right now it seems to be somewhat of a mish-mash. More info on when Lancelot and other characters krept into the legend would be great. Also I don't see any mention of the Holy Grail -- isn't that a central theme of the legend? I notice the book section is formatted as a list. Shouldn't the movie section be the same? I thought about changing it myself, but couldn't decide on how to do it and retain the info that some of the movie entries contain. E.g. The Sword in the Stone. Frecklefoot 17:21 Nov 6, 2002 (UTC)

Well, I went ahead & did it. I probably left my usual number of typos. Have fun fixing my mistakes. llywrch 22:51 Nov 6, 2002 (UTC)

Arthur vs. King Arthur

Okay, so should this guy be at "Arthur"...? -- Oliver P. 15:17 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

Another one for us to puzzle over. On balance, I think I favour "King Arthur", because he's a semi-legendary figure (ie. not a "British monarch"). More importantly, "Arthur" can refer to so many different people - it would have to be disambiguated in any case, and you'd end up disambiguating to - guess what? 212.159.41.163 15:41 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)
"Arthur (legendary figure)"? ;) I've redirected "Arthur" to here anyway, and put a disambiguation note at the top of this page telling people about other Arthurs. Was this the wrong thing to do? I think "King Arthur" might be misleading, because if he did exist, he probably wasn't a king as we understand the term. And most people when you say "Arthur" to them out of context would probably think of this chap anyway, wouldn't they? Argh, I shouldn't be thinking about this. I should be doing work... -- Oliver P. 15:46 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

It had to happen! Eventually some problem would arise over some 'royal' that wouldn't fit the naming conventions. I suppose as we are dealing with a figure who is a blurred mix of legend and myth, we can't really call him [Arthur of {wherever}]. And [Arthur] is ambiguous, so [King Arthur] is probably the best option, or least worst. I was going to say he is unique case, but that would be tempting fate!!! There are similar 'mythical' figures possibly based on real ones in Irish folklore, like Conor MacNeasa. JTD 15:53 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

When I say "Arthur" out of context, I usually mean the bloke from my old chess club. He would be under "Arthur (chess)", of course. Anyway, I think this is definitely the right place for this article - he wasn't a King, probably, but that doesn't matter; Count Basie wasn't really a count, but it's another case of following Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). The disambiguation block at the top of this page is probably OK, though I would've probably made Arthur a disambiguation page instead. I might do that later. --Camembert

The problem with this Arthur -- as opposed to the one who plays chess, the one in the movie, et cetera -- is that some evidence suggests that he was not a king, either by birth or force of arms. The Historia Britonum, one of our earliest sources for the Arthur of History, never calls him a king & actually states that he was a dux bellorum or "leader of battles".

However, he is called a king because everyone from Geoffrey of Monmouth onwards calls him one; Western Civilization has assumed he was always of royal blood, & so does everyone who is not a pedant on the topic. My vote is to follow the example of the discussion concerning "Pennsylvania Dutch" vs. "Pennsylvania German", & let that guide us. I, for one, am happy to keep calling him (although it is technically erroneously) King Arthur; I know who we're talking about. And as far as I know, there has never been a king named Arthur -- although a few designated heirs had that name. -- llywrch 23:17 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

Removal of Mythical Arthur

Why was the "The Life of the Mythical Arthur" section removed? The comment says "removal of duplicate material," but I found that section much more readable and a tidy summary of the mythical Author. Why can't we leave it in? If the reader wants more detail, they can dig through the rest of the article. —Frecklefoot 17:36, 18 Sep 2003 (UTC)

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