Talk:Adolph P. Yushkevich

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Move[edit]

I moved this page back to Adolph Yushkevich. See standard WP policy here. Mhym (talk) 19:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Move?[edit]

Adolph Pavlovich YushkevichAdolph Yushkevich

  • User:Ruud_Koot keeps reverting. Rationale: "Pavlovich" is Patronimic and Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people)#Middle_names_and_abbreviated_names states that Patronimics need to be omitted even if popularly used. Mhym (talk) 07:10, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm not an expert on Russian/Ukrainian names, but given that:
    1. His MacTutor biograhpy states that "Adolph Pavlovich Yushkevich was called Adolph Pavlovich throughout his life" and in the text continues to refer to him as "Adolph Pavlovich", where they normally only write either the first or the last name.
    2. He published under and is referred to in other English-language academic articles as "A. P. Yushkevich" or "Adolph P. Yushkevich". Never just "Adolph Yushkevich", unlike e.g. Andrey Kolmogorov. For example:
      • "This issue of Historia Mathematica is dedicated to A. P. Yushkevich, on the occasion of his seventieth birthday ..."
      • "This issue of Historia Mathematica is dedicated to Adolph Pavlovich Yushkevich, on the occasion of his eightieth birthday." [1]
      • On this page about the Kenneth O. May prize again only "Adolf P. Yushkevich" and "Adolf Pavlovitch Juschkewitch".
I can't conclude anything else then that he used "Adolph Pavlovich" as (what would in English correspond to) first names and have no idea why Wikipedia should omit "Pavlovich" when this is done in no other English-language source. —Ruud 14:28, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
In reply to this, let me emphasize two lines: "I'm not an expert on Russian/Ukrainian names" from Ruud above, and "Patronymics are widely used in Russia where English speakers would use a surname, thus should generally be included in the first line of the article, but are not usually used in the title of the English Wikipedia article" from WP naming policy. If Ruud is unhappy with the policy, fine, discuss it elsewhere, but selective application of it is a bad form. Finally, all Russians are known under their patronimics "throughout their life" - this is just part of the culture. Mhym (talk) 17:24, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
No, the primary policy is WP:COMMONNAME. In English-language source you will find Kolmogorov, commonly named as "Andrey Kolmogorov", but I've not seen a single source which refers to Yushkevich as "Adolph Yushkevich", but only as "Adolph Pavlovich Yushkevich". Do you have any which do? I would emphasize the guideline above as "Patronymics are widely used in Russia where English speakers would use a surname, thus should generally be included in the first line of the article, but are not usually used in the title of the English Wikipedia article". This biography being an exception to the rule. —Ruud 17:55, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I do know such papers. In fact, I just looked at his total list of publications and as far as I can tell 90% of them were published in Russia, and none of them are under "Adolph Pavlovich Yushkevich". A typical publication looks like this:
A. P. Yushkevich, Life and work of Leonhard Euler. On the occasion of the 275th anniversary of his birth and the 200th anniversary of his death. Vestnik Akad. Nauk SSSR, 1984, no. 5, 106–115.
This means that a the reader on the paper never in fact learns the full names, only the initials. It is in fact possible to make a case for the article to be "A. P. Yushkevich" (as in D. D. Morduhai-Boltovskoi I also made), but "Adolph P. Yushkevich" would make more sense. The fact that Russian people in person and in print address him by the full name, with a patronimic "Pavlovich", make no difference as this is an English language WP. In fact, in the Russian almost all article titles have patronimics, but again that's irrelevant here. So while I understand the wiggle room of "usually" in the WP policy, I don't see why you need to make this exception here and not in a million of other Russian pages. For example, Nikolay Konstantinov is known in Russia exclusively as "Nikolay Nikolayevich", as his first and last name is too popular to identify him otherwise. Still, I think the policy of listing patronimics in the first line of the article is a good policy and we should stick to that one rather than think up exception for random cases. The only reason I can see to create exceptions is the case like Vladimir Ivanovich Smirnov (mathematician) where the patronimic is crucial to distinguish him from other Vladimir Smirnov's. Other examples, like Andrey Nikolayevich Tychonoff are just sores in my eyes, but at least I didn't create the article and feel less responsibile for its future. Mhym (talk) 23:33, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
"A. P. Yushkevich" or "Adolph P. Yushkevich" would be fine with me too for the same reasons you gave. Most academics, except for the really famous ones, are primarily known by the name they are listed under in bibliographies. expanding initials would then be fine, be leaving them out would only be confusing in my opinion. —Ruud 10:27, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
No that is clearly not true. Knuth is and clearly should be located at Donald Knuth, not D. E. Knuth, Donald E. Knuth or Donald Ervin Knuth, Plotkin is and clearly should be located Gordon Plotkin, not G. D. Plotkin or Gordon D. Plotkin, because these are the name they were know under in real life and referred to in sources, except for bibliographies. Let me think about this some more. —Ruud 10:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
I am not sure how to respond to these two contradictory comments. I guess a compromised version would be "Adolph P. Yushkevich" - the initial does not bother me, and is perhaps helpful indeed for identity verification by an unfamiliar person who is just looking to find him as an author. If you want to do this move and stop worrying about this issue, fine with me. Otherwise, let's wait for a third opinion. Mhym (talk) 19:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
No one else bothered to comment here, so I moved the page. Cheers, —Ruud 15:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)