Talk:Aphthous stomatitis/Archive 1

Apthasol

What about Apthasol? It's apparently the only FDA approved treatment for canker sores, so it should probably be included somewhere... anyone have more info? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seyon (talk • contribs) 00:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I did some research on Apthasol. It simply uses Benedryl in a carrier medium to dull the pain, and it is very expensive. You can get exactly the same result by dissolving a Benedryl tablet in your mouth, next to the sore, and it only costs a few cents.TheLastResort44842 (talk) 18:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Merger / relocation

This page has been relocated from mouth ulcer and merged with the previous recurrent aphthous stomatitis page. The previous mouth ulcer page was predominantly about apthous ulcers and not about mouth ulceration in general.

• The new mouth ulcer page contains more information about other types of oral ulcerations. (Bouncingmolar 16:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC))

Why not have the article at Canker Sore and the redirect at Aphthus Ulcer, rewrite the intro so it is appropriate for wikipedia, and rearrange the sections a bit? Heathhunnicutt 17:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Move to aphthous ulcer

Perhaps this article should be more appropriately titled "aphthous ulcer." I'm proposing that this page should be moved, since "mouth ulcer" is too generic a term for this condition. Andrew73 12:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

What other kinds of mouth ulcer are lacking from this article? I came here looking for 'canker sore', to be honest, not "mouth ulcer" and definitely not "aphthous ulcer", but if you can list other mouth ulcers that should be in the article, I might agree. User:BalthCat 2006.03.12

Perhaps we need both titles. 'Mouth ulcer' (UK) / 'canker sore' (US) could be an overview, with links to more specific conditions such as 'aphthous ulcer'. Most people who have an aphthous ulcer, or aphthous stomatitis, don't know that that's what it's called. --Heron 11:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the merger proposal someone do it. I think that the mouth ulcer page needs to be renamed to aphthous ulcer and the mouth ulcer page needs to be more general and have links to herpes and the apthous page(Bouncingmolar 09:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC))

As a result of some previous moving, I found that the link under "Recurrent Aphthous Stomatitis" to canker sores links back to the top of the article. Don't know how to edit this. --threedimes

This article is too biased towards apthous ulcers

considering it is supposed to be about mouth ulcers. And because of the request to move to apthous ulcer I have started an Apthous ulcer page and will be relocating alot of the apthous specific information to it. Please comment on this proposal :) or suggest a better strategy. NO information will be lost just relocated(Bouncingmolar 10:58, 18 July 2006 (UTC))

Ulcers lasting more than 4 weeks

I have definitely had ulcers that last considerably more than a month, on rare occasion more than 2 months. If I'm alone in this fair enough, but otherwise I think the time frame should be extended, or an 'occasionally longer' added. Wedgeh 09:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I, too have had such long-lasting outbreaks of RAS. If you are unlucky enough to suffer these long-lasting outbreaks, you must make the acquaintance of a good ENT specialist. He or she will be able to treat these longer outbreaks with steroids, either in oral (methyprednisolone, in this case) or subcutaneously injected form (kenalog, in this case). -- Zdover 09:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Ive had once a 2.5 month sore after a severe toungue bit (blood) and practically a toungue piercing. I cant rmemeber how i delt with it.Patcat88 19:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I've had long-lasting mouth ulcers too. My doctor prescribed Valtrex, which is usually prescribed for herpes. My doctor said that aptheous ulcers may be caused by a similar virus. I'm surprised not to see anything about this on this Wikipedia page. The Valtrex does seem to keep the mouth ulcers from getting too bad, although Valtrex is REALLY expensive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.21.244 (talk) 16:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

chewing gum

My two cents for all the other canker sore sufferers.... For half my life, I chewed gum almost every day, and for that half of my life, I had several canker sores every month. Stopped chewing gum, and the canker sores have been rare. (as both curious and masochistic, I will occasionally still chew gum, and have found that the more gum, and the more sugary it is, the more certain that a sore will shortly develop.) The other bit of advice from my own experience is this: while almost any kind of irritation to my mucus membrance will develop into a sore, I've found that if I can get some mouthwash on it during the first several minutes after the injury, the liklihood of ulcer development is much less. (Dhermit 9-26-05)

Rembrandt

"In some cases, switching toothpastes can prevent mouth ulcers from occurring. Tests have shown that Oral-B Rembrandt Whitening Toothpaste for Canker Sore Sufferers, for example, has been able to reduce the occurrence of ulcers by approximately 80%."

This sounds like advertising copy. Matthew Platts 15:20, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's also correct information. I've been using Rembrandt and noticed a definite decline in frequency of canker sores. Supposedly they have also done controlled studies involving that particular brand. 24.54.208.177 17:16, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I am using the Rembrandt toothpaste currently, but I have my doubts. It appears that the 'active ingredient' is simply not having SLS.

I changed my toothpaste too (not to Rembrandt) and found I had less canker sores. I think it's more due began brushing and flossing much more regularly than the particular brand of toothpaste. However, this is merely anecdotal evidence.

I've gone from 10+ canker sores a month to less than 1 a month simply by changing my toothpaste. I used to use Aquafresh (contains SLS). Now, I use Trader Joe's Peppermint (no SLS). The reason I changed was that I heard that SLS in toothpaste might cause canker sores. The TJ's toothpaste was the first I found w/o SLS. If Rembrandt does not contain SLS, then their claims may very well be valid. But, other toothpastes without SLS probably yield the same result. There are a handful of medical studies which link SLS in toothpaste to canker sores. I added them to the canker sore page earlier today. Jrennie 00:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Campho-Phenique

The article recommends using Ambesol (spelling?) or Campho-phenique. But the warnings on my tube of Campho-phenique Cold Sore Treatment states, "If swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison control center right away." So if you place this on a canker sore, it would be swallowed - although a small amount. Can anyone provide a answer to the delima?

I use it myself, so obviously I'm not too worried. If you apply it and rinse it out carefully, the few micrograms you might swallow are far below toxic doses. What the label means is, "Don't drink it".

Pic anyone?

I was thinking that, I'd soon upload a picture of my recent Canker. Desirable? Appropriate? TheBlunderbuss 02:36, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That could work. Given the picture on Erection I think a picture of a mouth ulcer would comparatively be well in order Matthew Platts 03:09, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Let me wade through the licensing literature first. Is it me, or does it seem like we're the only ones who care about this article, ATM? - TheBlunderbuss 01:15, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ouch, that looks painful. I first came across this article suffering from an ulcer myself, so... I guess this is mostly interesting to sufferers! And we suffer for our art. Good picture though. Matthew Platts 12:31, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As you can probably guess, I came here when I was afflicted as well. What really threw me was the lack of distinction between a Canker sore and a cold sore. Would you like to insert this distinction? You really think it was good? It was hard getting the autofocus to work right. -- TheBlunderbuss 21:25, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tyler says: Oh lord, that picture makes me ill... We need to get some artists to draw some images instead. That would be a lot less desturbing.

Naah! The picture is far more useful; I would've never realized this was what I was suffering from without the photo. A drawing is less exact. And yes, the photo is painful to look at, but again, useful.24.95.78.92 21:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Listerine

The article mentions "Rinse the mouth with Listerine" as a remedy. Is there any reason why other generic brand antibacterial mouthwashes wouldn't be as effective? I am using one and it seems to help.--LucidGA 23:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Apparently listerine is being used generically for all mouth washes. I think this should be rephrased without the brand name. JFW | T@lk 23:09, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Changed.--LucidGA 01:44, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I wrote Listerine because I had found that brand specifically mentioned as a remedy on a website and also had luck using it myself. Perhaps it would be best to list the brands that do work in parentheses. David Bergan 21:28, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Listerine is different from other mouthwashes. It tastes worse but apparently is more effective for certain purposes (I forget what they are). 24.54.208.177 17:16, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Listerine tends to make my sores even worse. Crest mouthwash or H-Peroxide tend to work the best for me.

I use listerine for canker sores, works for .5-4 hours. My key is to hold it in my mouth until all the pain in my mouth goes away (1-5 minutes), includes tongue and canker soure, and then I play/rub/lick/clean/scrub the sore with my toungue until its impossible to get pain out of it and repeat one or 2 times more because the salivia will dilute the listerine like crazy the first time in the series of listerine washes making it useless and only getting rid of pain because of the decreasing concentration of listerine vs saliva. Because it take a long time (1-5 mins) for the pain to go away per wash, I usually go back to whatever i was doing with listerine in my mouth. Also anasthetics are A JOKE, they cause more pain than they take by incomplete numbing. Also they NEVER stay where they should and numb the whole mouth and throat leading to accidental bites of toungue and cheek. And you cant eat with anasthetics or taste anything. With listerine i can eat a meal and taste it, not lidocaine flavored bread. Also, im not sure, or placebo effect, but one time i HAD to get rid of a canker sore ASAP for a hookup. I listerined it every 2-3 hours or each time i got a bathroom chance for all the hours i was awake for 3 days (day found+day 1+day 2) and on day 3 morning it was painless, and by afternoon gone. I think listerine helped, but there needs to be a serious study done, i havent tried to repeat it since. Patcat88 18:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

i usually get mouth ulcers, and have tried listerine. Seems to do the trick, i don't really know whether it helped "heal" the ulcer or just help relieve the pain, either way it disapeared quickly. 218.101.64.16 00:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Listerine is essentially alcohol, It would kill the pain because the alcohol would burn the heck out of your ulcer ( alcohol burn) same as rubbing alcohol on to a sore, yowzer) Listerine has some anti-inflammatory properties, but I think that listerine would be about as effective as bathing your ulcer in whiskey. (Bouncingmolar 21:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

¿And the BEER itsnt work??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.202.132.177 (talk) 10:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I use Listerine for mouth ulcers to great effect. Other brands that I have tried do not work for me, whisky doesn't help, and even one of the listerine flavours (citrus) is ineffective. I find that Listerine:

- Prevents ulcers in the first place
- Reduces pain when they do appear
- Helps them heal faster

I used to have three or four ulcers at any given time, now I am ulcer free 80% of the time because of twice daily listerine. I have appraoched this with some rigour, using different brands and controlling for diet. If I run out of listerine and don't use any for a few days, the ulcers come back. A week of listerine gets them back under control.

My ulcers used to make it painful for me to eat, sleep and even talk. Listerine, quite seriously, has improved my quality of life. No, I do not work for whoever owns listerine.

Strangely, the main article sites Listerine as a cause of ulcers. Sure, everyone is different, but Listerine works for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.120.155 (talk) 07:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Treatment

I have found that Lysine-L has helped prevent mouth ulcers as well as vitamin C particularly in Apricot Nectar (juice). However at times of high stress I still get them and they are aggravated by things such as soft drinks and chocolate. Interestingly beer seems to help but whether this is due to some property of the beer or that I associate beer drinking with less stress is open for debate. I think it may be a combination of the two.

Another method for treating mouth ulcers that works for me is the topical application of Calendula lotion. It stings for a bit but seems to help.

--Zarboki 16:54, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I took Lysine-L supplements daily for six months and did not get ANY canker sores during that time. I reccomend them highly!! :) Kitty.kat94 17:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I have gone many, many months without a canker sore despite NOT taking supplements. I used L-Lysine supplements to treat active sores in the past, however. It seemed to take the pain away and facilitate healing, but I cannot find any support for it. What I can find out on the internet seems to suggest that Lysine isn't supposed to work on active sores. Placebo effect seems to be a very likely explanation. --Mdwyer 19:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

My grandmother used to recommend plain yoghurt. Maybe it's just the placebo effect, but it seems to work for me.

From my personal experience, yogurt does seem to be good at not only healing but preventing canker sores. Last year, I was getting awful canker sores every 6-8 weeks that made it difficult to speak and eat. Desperate to end this reoccuring pain, I decided to try the yogurt cure by eating small portions of yogurt after every meal. 9 months later, I cannot recall the last time I developed a canker sore in my mouth. Yogurt is most certainly worth a try for anyone who is tired of canker sore pain! K. Eng 04:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Yogurt has worked well for me, as well. I remember reading something about the active cultures in yogurt being significant, but don't remember where. A quick Google search found a plethora of sites citing active Lactobacillus acidophilus cultures in yogurt can help heal and prevent canker sores. --Glenn W 05:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

ive tried the "pouring salt" onto the sore, Oh man it hurt. it made it bleed and ive never had one bleed. so im curious if it really works or not, because i had no relif and it hurt more.

edit: i just purchased a box of Cankermelts-gx (ive read that only able to purchase online, but found them at a local grocery store [NW washingtion "Haggen's"]). and oddly enough i think there working. i had bittin my lip and it was obviously going to turn into a canker stinging and getting bigger, but i put a cankermelt on it and today when it would normaly be blistering its still just a small bite mark with no sign of pain or turning into a canker. thouhg these things are tricky to get into position, they taste like Liquorice root (which is the active ingredinet!? Glycyrrhiza herbal extract). which is fine by me. ill come back after a few trials with this product to see if it really works.

--Cryotwin 22:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I've had cankersores periodically for as long as I remember. Usually caused by stress or illness. The only thing I've found to help which I will use on a regular basis is Orabase B. I've used that for 10+ years and it has really helped me manage the pain.

--Pcraven 02:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Everytime I have a cankersore, I use Cankaid. It's a great treatment and gets rid of it quick. --Starry.dreams 16:47 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I find editing Wikipedia articles helps alleviate the pain quite a bit. But only when I stay encyclopedic, including citing my sources, and steer clear of POV. 11:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Salt ? The first entry in 'Home Remedies' suggests rubbing it raw and soaking it with salt. This sounds like a bad joke, intended to inflict pain. I suggest it be removed. --Graham king 3 (talk) 04:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Uncited and, worse, written as a how-to guide which WP:NOT - so removed.

Multiple OTC products all using the same active ingredients - unless evidence can be provided to the contray then, as per WP:MEDMOS the INN active ingredient name shoudl be te article and brand names redirect to it. I'll have a go. David Ruben ^Talk 14:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hydrogen Peroxide

I use hydrogen Peroxide to clean mine. A little bit poured in the cap and some cotton swabs(q-tips) usually does the trick but sometimes I rinse my mouth out with it. The peroxide is painful when swabed on the sore but I find after cleaning that the sore doesnt hurt anymore and I can poke it with my tongue without pain. Mouth wash quickly removes the peroxide flavor.

I’ve found that Hydrogen Peroxide only makes it feel better by comparison. I usually experience pain when using it, but in recovery the pain receptors are less sensitive to pain. Like when you’re outside in the bright sun, but go inside its dark.

--Cryotwin 22:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

• I used a 3% hydrogen peroxide mouth rinse thrice daily for three days (this is the third day); by the end of the second day I noticed a significant decrease in my ability to taste anything. Today, I could barely differentiate between sweet and salty. Fascinating. The sore persists as strong as ever. Wikipedia probably shouldn't have been my first source for medical related information I suppose. Sekiyu 06:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Dont rinse your mouth with hydrogen peroxide, your probably damamging yoru teeth (giving a lil bleaching treatment lol) and your tongue. I dry the sore with paper, pull the area out if i can, or use tissues to make saliva blockades to keep saliva and other parts of mouth from rewetting cancer sore. Then I rub hydrogen peroxide on with a Q-tip on and hardly into the the sore, the white layer rubs off/disapears and soemtiems the wound bleeds.Patcat88 19:03, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

"There is some evidence that the presence of amalgam tooth fillings increases the frequency of occurrence of mouth ulcers"

Is there any quotable edivence for this statement? If so, it really should be included. Mushin 19:58, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

In my personal experience, I've found no connection between amalgam fillings and canker sores. Since I was a child, I've had regular canker sores---it's rare that I'd go a few days without one. Appx. January '06, I switched to a non-SLS toothpaste. Appx. March '06, I had an amalgam filling. Since I switched toothpastes, I've seen a significant decrease in canker sores to the point that since about mid-July, I haven't had a single one. I.e. if amalgam fillings caused canker sores, I wouldn't have seen a steady decrease in their incidence from January to July. 'course, this is just one person's experience---other people may be affected differently. But, without any evidence, this theory doesn't belong on the article page. Jrennie 13:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Traditional Chinese Medicine view point

Traditional Chinese medicine says that mouth ulcer (along with sore throat and more pimples) are caused by consuming too much "hot" food (eg. deep fried food, fried food, oily food, baked food, arranged from most severe to least severe) and can be cured by eating "cold" food like pears, watercress, traditional Chinese herbal tea (very bitter) etc. The cause makes sense to me as I got a mouth sore the day straight after I ate at BK and the cures had worked most of the times. Does these worth mentioning in the main article? Or is it just a placebo?

There seem to be traditional chinese cures for almost every ailment, I would guess that every article relating to the human body could contain a bit about traditional remedies. Personally I think it would be best to leave such things out, as we could also discuss native american remedies, african remedies, and historical remedies to name a few.

I also think this section should be removed. Only genuine medical science should be present in medical articles. If there is to be a description of "traditional" remedies for ailments, they should be on pages about "traditional" remedies --HeXetic 05:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I can understand your point but I think it would be best to just change the title to Trational Remedies. Then we are able to discuss any kind of historical/traditional remedies, not just focusing on modern technology. --Starry.dreams 16:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Just because there isn't much money in chinese remedies, there isn't as much scientific research into them. But take the example of Zhizhiben/Genipin recently to heart -- there is value to non-allopathic traditions. Heathhunnicutt 21:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Canker Sore Stories

I thought it would be nice if we shared some stories from the past about our pain. The worst canker sore I've ever had was a massive one that broke out on the right side of my tongue. It was so painful I couldn't sleep for a couple nights. Another occassion was when I had four at the same time and one pair combined into a huge one. -Zetherus-

This is an encyclopedia, not a blog. Your stories are most certainly not welcome. JFW | T@lk 00:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I was talking about on the talk page, not in the article.70.16.75.2 —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 02:26:27, August 18, 2007 (UTC).

I'd love to share stories. Someone should start a blog. One time i was attempting to eat a slice of pizza (bad idea) with crushed red peppers on top (really bad idea) at the same time my entire head hurt because i had such a huge sore on the inside of my lip. well, a crushed red pepper found its way directly inside the bounds of my sore, and my head almost exploded. my friends didn't know what the hell was going on. the next day, someone asked me when i started doing dip because my lip was so irratated and puffy. i usually use alum, which i feel works. however, the sore will usually "fight back" after the first application or two. if you fight back harder with alum, after 2 to 3 days of at least two "battles" per day, you're golden. it's a rough go, but hell, it beats feeling like S and acting like your cranky war vet grandpa for two weeks.

I had a couple on the back of my tongue. They were extremely painful whenever I swallowed or talked. I had to drink through a straw and couldn't eat :)

I once burnt my tongue with coffee and developed about 25 simultaneous canker sores on the tip and under the tongue. It was a most painful experience, I had to eat soups and stews and jelly while they healed, I couldn't talk. It lasted around two weeks. I just waited for it to heal naturally.--200.14.108.1 20:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Canker sores in conjunction with a common cold

I found nothing in the article that mentioned that mouth ulcers often occur at the same time as a cold. This is a personal experience and I have also found several references to it in swedish, but I have found nothing about it in english. Is this wrong or would it simply be mixed up with cold sores?

== Trust me...DO not use the Vinegar remedy that is mentioned in the article. I tried it and it turned my mouth to a really light purple shade and it left my mouth tried out and my tongue burning with red bumps for a while....it didnt seem to calm the pain down either. If you are going to try it do it when you will not be going out just in case you have a similar issue, because it is noticable. ==

Cold sores are due to herpesvirus, and occur on the lips. Canker sores o"ccur inside the mouth. They are probably more common during viral illness, such as the common cold, but we need a source before this goes in. JFW | T@lk 16:41, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

You are not alone. I often got canker sores during a bout with common cold or after exposure to allergens. K. Eng 04:08, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

me too i got a sore throat along with the excrutiantion pain in my mouth, i've been sneezing and now my nose is runny.. :( 75.25.104.250 04:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm no scientist, but perhaps the swelling caused by the cold makes your teeth more likely to scrape up against your mouth? I think that is what happens to me. Every night I wake up with a bloody pillow because my teeth are cutting my cankers open.. Gotta get some wax for that.

I am 18 and don't think I have ever lived one whole month without at least two...my doctor said that there is nothing I can do about it. I have noticed that foods high in citric acid cause worse inflamations than my normal ones. I have always used peroxide and alum to relieve pain and speed healing. Canker sores are a major inconvienience in my life keeping me from sleep and nourishment more than often. I feel for those like me.

Mouth ulcer - Alcohol

I am a type 2 diabetic ( may not be relevant) who has always had a problem with mouth ulcers.But i can stay free as long as i dont drink alcohol.Anyone got any ideas how I can drink and not get mouth ulcers?

My bestcure is regular rinse with corsodyl which relieves symptoms very well

Advertisment?

"One oral health care product (available at one's dentist), Zilactin (from Zila Professional Pharmaceuticals), is painted onto the ulcer, forming a patented, bioadhesive film that seals irritants out. It also prevents pain caused by the ulcer rubbing against other surfaces within the mouth."

Looks like an ad to me. Hugzz 16:02, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Heck i just edited it right out because it really doesn't belong.Hugzz 16:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Why dont your reword it then to not be a advertisment? If its not quack medicine, it should be on this article, wait this does have semi-quack medicine. Regarding sealents, Ive thought of putting superglue on canker sores to prevent irratation from food and moisture, never tried it though. So that statement isnt advertising IMO.Patcat88 19:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

tobacco

I thinking smoking has caused my most recent sore. I had quit for a month, started back, and now have one on the side of my toungue. Before I quit, when I bit myself and smoked heavily I would get one. I think this one is just a reaction aginst nicotine/chemicals. Mmm. Cancer.

immune system

I read somewhere that it's theorized that canker sores are an overreaction of the immune system. I would add it but, I can't find my old source. Another source would be helpful.\--Alden452 01:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Alum proven to work?

Apply powdered alum directly to the sores—available in the spice aisle at your grocery store (this can be very painful, but is proven to work)

Seems like a bold claim to have in there without a reference, think it should be changed? --Fxer 18:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, Alum does work--in fact, one medication I was turned onto by a pharmacist that works well for me is a partially alum-based product, "Fletcher's Liquid Sore-Mouth Medicine". (12.8 mg/ml Potassium Alum, 25.0 mg/ml Potassium Chlorate.) 207.47.139.27 03:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I use Alum and it works every time. Infact I think I get less sores than I use to. User:Fx.gbp/Fx.gbp 09:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.86.25 (talk)

Ibuprofen

I have suffered from recurrent aphthous stomatitis (RAS) since pre-adolescence, and I have noticed a correlation between consumption of ibuprofen and the outbreak of RAS. I have not read anything in RAS literature suggesting an etiological link between ibuprofen consumption and RAS outbreak, but the last time I took ibuprofen (September 2000) I developed severe RAS on the back of my throat near my tonsils, and the ulcers did not go away for months (and had finally to be treated with methylprednisolone). I had noticed before that I developed RAS ulcers after consuming ibuprofen, and I strongly suspect that ibuprofen is a RAS-outbreak trigger. Any specialist or doctor who wishes to contact me about this (or about having textbook-grade RAS outbreaks) is hereby encouraged to do so. -- Zdover 09:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Mouth ulcer/canker sore consistency

I changed ‘sore’, ‘canker sore’ etc. to ‘ulcer’, ‘mouth ulcer’ etc. so that there isn’t so much switching around between the terms and because the article title is mouth ulcer. I hope this doesn’t bother anybody. --HeteroZellous 00:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Home treatment/severe cases section rename

I think the "home treatment" and "severe cases" sections need to be renamed to "Over-the-counter treatment"/"personal treatments" and "professional treatments"/"prescribtion treatments". What do you think?Patcat88 19:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Review

A recent clinical review[1]. JFW | T@lk 13:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Aphthous ulcer: affected areas

Having read "aphthous ulcer or canker sore is a type of mouth ulcer", I want to add that aphthous ulcer per se need not affect only the mouth (though it most commonly does that) but also the epithelium of the esophagus, GI tract, and anogenital areas. I think this perspective needs to be stated somewhere in the introduction before focusing on the mouth (i.e. aphthous stomatitis). A-giau 06:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Deglycyrrhizinated licorice

Perhaps something about this should be mentioned on the site:

2) Deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) DGL is the herb licorice that has had the glycyrrhizic acid removed, the portion that can increase blood pressure. In one research study, DGL was found to promote the healing of canker sores, with a 50-75% improvement in one day. This study used a mouthwash made of powdered DGL mixed with water.

from http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/treatments/a/Canker.htm Contrinewb 00:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

By the way, there are references at the bottom of the linked page. Contrinewb 01:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

One study does not make for scientific consensus nor change to routine clinical practice. PS none of 5 referrences on that site are footnotes about DGL study. That said, find the original study reference and at least one other (so showing not just one-off study effect) and its at least as worthy of including as the currently uncited use of vinegar, oil of clove, baking soda or Lysine-L supplements. David Ruben ^Talk 01:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Wholeheartedly agree, it does not make for scientifc consensus. But, like you said, there's a lot in the article that isn't very well supported. But yes, I should have checked prior to mentioning the references. I believe this is the orginal study: J Assoc Physicians India. 1989 Oct;37(10):647. I think I've found a second, but I currently don't have access: Clinics in Dermatology, Volume 18, Issue 5, Pages 569-578

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0738081X00001474 Contrinewb 02:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes first paper on 20 patients is abstracted at PMID 2632514. Diberri's tool marks this up as:

{{cite journal | author = Das S, Das V, Gulati A, Singh V | title = Deglycyrrhizinated liquorice in aphthous ulcers. | journal = J Assoc Physicians India | volume = 37 | issue = 10 | pages = 647 | year = 1989 | id = PMID 2632514}}

Which appears as: Das S, Das V, Gulati A, Singh V (1989). "Deglycyrrhizinated liquorice in aphthous ulcers". J Assoc Physicians India. 37 (10): 647. PMID 2632514.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

The other paper has no abstract included in its PubMed listing. Searching on PubMed for 'Deglycyrrhizinated' finds just 17 articles of which all but PMID 2632514 are to do with peptic ulcers. So eally very little WP:Reliable sources evidence - I wonder, if Google hits give weight to notability or evidence - not obviously as huge number sites clearly requoting Das et al study. Hmmm... David Ruben ^Talk 03:18, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Home remedies need citing?

I've not been a fan of the "OMG CITE THIS" nonsense infecting Wikipedia, but surely we don't need them for the Home Remedies section, do we? Home remedies are inherently not the kind of stuff you find in medical textbooks, but can be helpful for people. Scumbag 18:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The "OMG cite this" "nonsense" infecting wikipedia is the only thing thats going to be make it a source worthy of reading. Without it you end up with all kinds of common, and not-so-common, knowledge which is not true passed off as fact. For example, who would think to cite "coffee dehydrates you", or "water always spins the same direction when going down the drain depending on what hemishpere your in" when everyone knows it! Turns out neither is true (the coriollis effect only works on large scale systems such as hurricanes and caffiene dehydrates you, but coffee has enough water to compensate.) Home remedies should of course be cited. Its even more important when the information is as questionably effective as "home remedies" often are. Even if they are sourced it won't make them any more effective, but atleast we know where the information is coming from, and if it wasn't just made up by a contributor. Brentt 17:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Great point. Even more, if anything were to need a citation, it would be things listed in the home remedies section. These are the sort of things that may have absolutely no validity, and thus deserve no mention in wikipedia. - Dozenist talk 19:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The oil of cloves page says any oral or topical usage is incredibly dangerous. I'm removing it from the page. 24.12.10.217 23:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

really? hahahhah thats funny. good work (Bouncingmolar 21:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

How about the rubbing alcohol technique? It has been added recently, but I've never heard of it. Isn't it bad to have rubbing alcohol consumed? Well, you're technically not really drinking it... Can someone verify it? I'm getting skeptical now. (I didn't want to edit the sentence if it was false) Jensta (talk) 11:16, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed that and another "remedy" listed without a reference. Sometime, we really need to go through the "home remedy" section and get some really good references for anything discussed. - Dozenist talk 11:54, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Is the application of semen really appropriate here? I feel like someone just made that up so if no one has a reference I would suggest deleting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.133.142.149 (talk) 08:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Teethbrushing

My god brushing is torture when I have these things in my mouth. I try to stretch my lip but the brush always manages to touch the ulcer. Hurts like a son of a bitch. --Mika1h 22:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Have you tried switching to a non-SLS toothpaste? A number of studies have found a link between canker sores and the Sodium Lauryl Sulfate found in most toothpastes. Jrennie 12:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed that I get canker sores when I get lazy and fail to brush my teeth regularly. If I brush my teeth twice a day and change my brush every couple months i hardly ever get them. This article does not discuss good oral hygene as a preventative measure.

i read this part 'Aphthous ulcers normally heal without treatment within 1–2 weeks. Good oral hygiene should be maintained, and spicy/acidic/salty foods and drinks are best avoided, as they may irritate existing ulcers.' man i have a healthy eating habbit of hotsauce (i loved it), but i dont get the full effect of the pain on an ulcer until i brush my teeth-- it feels like it's being pulled inside out, and then burned with a blowtorch. it sucks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.25.104.250 (talk) 04:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC).

Diseases?

"Mouth ulcers may also be symptoms or complications of several diseases listed in the following section."

There is no following section. This should be fixed. - 68.70.219.17 08:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Can somebody put a note on how to pronounce "aphthous?" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cybersim (talk • contribs) 04:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Pronunciation is phonetic: af-th-us. The "ph" is as in "Phillip". User:Whipstick 25 August 2007 —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 06:30, August 25, 2007 (UTC).

Marmite should be deleted

Remarkable page, confirms many deductions I made from experiment and it's hell of a lot more than a GP could ever tell me. I cannot believe that Marmite is seriously listed as a remedy. I did try this once (as a child), not sure why. It is highly acidic and will make a small ulcer develop rapidly into a giant seething cluster. Your pain level will go from annoying to debilitating.

More helpful would be to advise people to avoid consuming Marmite (in particular, Marmite is more acid than Vegemite and whenever I have ever had it, it created ulcers the same day).

I intend to delete from the article the sentence about applying marmite to the ulcer because I think it is liable to cause someone great pain sooner or later.

I suggest a caveat should be added as to antacids as well. I used to try using sodium bicarbonate, and the result, ulcers are blasted but a cut develops and one day that cut will develop back into an ulcer. More effective for me is simply to drink a little milk, wrinsing slightly.

Correlation with HIV:

Several websites mention a correlation of canker sores with HIV infected individuals. Comments?

<nobr></nobr> equivalent

how can you make text like "1-3 mm" be treated as a single entity so that you dont end up with

1-3
mm

or

1-
3 mm

the html tag <nobr></nobr> is supposed to do this but it doesn't get interpreted by wiki.

also is there a more general location i can ask a question like this?

Sahuagin 18:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment

Please stress that any food containing citric acid can bring on recurrent aphthous stoatitis in some people.Since I have been watching all food and drink labels, I have eliminated 90% of my mouth soars by eliminating all citric acid containing foods and drinks. All soft drinks seem to contain citric acid. I previously suffered from mouth soars (sometimes up to 10 at a time) almost every day. In regard to the location of this topic...How many people who have mouth soars know that it should be looked up under Aphthous Ulcer. I didn't know that term after having mouth soars for 40 years. The words where an item is located should be ones people would commonly look up.````—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ddailey2 (talk • contribs) 09:18, 11 February 2007.

Whilst above is an interesting observation, it counts as original research and so can't be included in an encyclopaedia unless we can find WP:Reliable sources to WP:Verify. A search of PubMed for "aphthous citric" gives just 2 relevant his, neither are contemporary nor with on-line abstracts to find out what the conclusions were:

• KUTSCHER A, BARBASH R, ZEGARELLI E, AMPHLETT J (1958). "Citric acid sensitivity in recurrent ulcerative (aphthous) stomatitis". J Allergy. 29 (5): 438–41. PMID 13575064.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• ETTELSON L, TUFT L (1956). "Canker sores from allergy to weak organic acids (citric and acetic); case report and clinical study". J Allergy. 27 (6): 536–43. PMID 13366556.

Changing search to "aphthus citrous" gives some more recent and useful links which confirm the observation but are not full studies nor confirmation of the incidence rate (i.e. this confirms observation that it might occur, but fails indicate whether commonly so or not):

• Ghelani A, Mastana S, Samanta A (2002). "Aphthous ulcers". Br Dent J. 193 (6): 301–2. doi:10.1038/sj.bdj.4801551. PMID 12374993.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) - see about 3/4 down page for letter entitled "Aphthous ulcers", this concludes "The causative agent in the carton orange juice is not known".
• Mizrahi B, Golenser J, Wolnerman J, Domb A (2004). "Adhesive tablet effective for treating canker sores in humans". J Pharm Sci. 93 (12): 2927–35. doi:10.1002/jps.20193. PMID 15459950.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) - is interesting because Citrous oil (rather than citric acid) is being used as a treatment for such ulcers !

Searches on "canker citrous" gives rise mostly to citrus-plant canker disorders and "canker ciric" to jsut the Ettelson paper above. David Ruben ^Talk 12:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Diet

Switching to a vegan diet or improving general nutrition may reduce canker sore frequency. After getting canker sores on a monthly basis my whole life, changing to a healthy vegan diet has instantly changed the frequency to about once every 3 to 4 months and occuring only after biting or injuring the mouth rather than randomly. My diet consists of a whole foods plant-based diet about 50% raw.

Chinese Medicine

Citation needed here for sure. In general the comments are correct, but the use of ginseng would need to be qualified because as this is a 'heat' condition and the Chinese herb Ren Shen (ginseng) is 'warm' in nature. American ginseng on the other hand is most often classified as being cool in nature. Perhaps because of ginseng's affect on the Heart [the TCM conception of the Heart that is] it would be included here but that might involve referencing the TCM disease pattern of "Heart Fire." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BlauNacht (talk • contribs) 18:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Can canker sores cause Herpes?

I was just wondering if canker sores can cause herpes or another std if you have oral sex.

Herpes is from a viral infection. Not caused by canker sores. - Dozenist talk 02:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, canker sores are not caused by a Herpes virus. LonelyPker 02:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The sores themselves do not have anything to do with a herpesvirus. On the other hand, a person who has both HSV-1 and open aphthae in an area that already is infected with the herpesvirus has a higher chance of transmitting HSV-1 to others. Similarly, there is a greater contracting HSV-1 from others if the patient has aphthae. Generally, any lesions, sores or cuts in the mouth of a person having oral sex make it more likely that that person will transmit any infections present in his or her mouth, and more likely that he or she will contract infections from her or his partner's penis or vagina.76.173.17.102 22:14, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Drinks to alleviate pain while eating

Was I the only one to notice how, respectively, cold Coke, Milk and Sparkling water help in dealing with the pain while eating (at least that's what I use them the most for, they can also be used in other times of the day)? (ham 8/9/2007)

I have had the same experience with Coke, water seems to sting, though. --71.163.22.8 (talk) 20:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Home remedies

I kind of hate to do this, but we have to have some inclusion criteria for the home remedies section, so I cut it down to ones cited to good sources (universities, health orginisations, hospitals, etc) Adam Cuerden ^talk 23:52, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The problem with the home remedies section is that most of it has no refs or is "old wives' tales" passed along by word of mouth. Since this is a disease-related article, I would lean toward removing the whole section rather than keeping dubious information. In the meantime, I think your move to start cutting down the information was warranted. - Dozenist talk 10:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Coeliac Disease and aphthous ulcers

There are many reliable references to the presence of aphthous ulcers in some people with coeliac disease. I, myself, had them for many years while exhibiting signs of CD which were, however, unrecognised by the medical profession. Once my condition was finally diagnosed the ulcers disappeared entirely after a short period on the gluten-free diet. I have been free of them for about six years after having them for over twenty years. The explanation that they may be caused by an over-active immune system seems very plausible for people with undiagnosed coeliac disease. Currently the number of people with undiagnosed CD is quite high (about 80% of cases still undiagnosed in Australia). It would be sensible for anyone with recurrent aphthous ulcers to seek medical confirmation that the cause is not undiagnosed coeliac disease. Coeliac disease presents with over 40 symptoms, many of which are not gut-related (i.e. not nausea, diarrhoea, etc): my own symptoms were mainly unrelated to the gut until the last few months. User:Whipstick 25 August 2007 —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 06:57, August 25, 2007 (UTC).

'Stress' and 'Fatigue' wrongly blamed as causes?

My point is that any time doctors can't cure something, they start blaming it on 'stress' and 'fatigue', as this article does under 'Causes'. I have very serious doubts about citing these ambiguous factors as 'causes' of mouth ulcers. These same factors are alleged in numerous other conditions such as herpes outbreaks, with little or no scientific proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.193.144.79 (talk) 07:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

In animals?

Is there any evidence of aphthous ulcers in animals? I ask because my horse has what appears to be a large purple ulcer on his upper gum (he throws his lip up a lot). I've done a little research and I've found nothing describing the problem in other mammals, and I'm wondering if it's normal in other mammals for these ulcers to be colours other than gray, yellow or white, or if I need to get the vet to take a look. I don't expect anyone to know (this isn't a help page, after all!), but my point is that if there is any information on these ulcers in other animals, it would be helpful to include it in this article. If I find anything myself, I'll add it in! Amphy (talk) 05:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Nicotine and aphthous ulcers

Aphthous ulcers are more common in nonsmokers. About a third of people who quit smoking develop them as a consequence. Nicorette has been used as an effective treatment. (Med J Aust, 1991, 154, pp471-2RayJohnstone (talk) 06:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Borax

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Borax as a treatment. I read about it somewhere. Borax is a homeopathic remedy that you can purchase in stores such as Whole Foods or even some Ralphs. It comes in the form of little pellets that you can suck on.

I get very painful canker sores about 2-3 times a year. Once I discovered Borax I've been able to almost completely control them. When I feel a canker sore coming on or I just accidentally bite my lip (which often leads to a canker sore) I start taking Borax. I usually suck on 4-5 pellets about 4-5 times per day. If I do this at the beginning I'm able to stop the canker sore completely. If I start a little late (canker sore has just started) the Borax will usually take about 1-2 days to get rid of it and I don't have any pain. Borax has been a huge help for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.173.31.36 (talk) 22:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Canker Cure

I'm a clinical researcher who has spent 7 years studying canker sores (aphthous ulcers). During that time I've studied every treatment known. I can say positively that lysine and Valtrex will not help if you have true canker sores. These products treat cold sores which form outside the mouth and are caused by the Herpes virus. Canker sores are not caused by a virus or bacteria. If they were caused by either of these then they would be easily spread from person to person, and this is not the case. The only product I've found which actually gets rid of canker sores, and can be used to prevent them, is a product called Canker Cure. It is only sold online. I apologize if I sound like an ad for the product, but there is so much misinformation out there I felt compelled to write. I, too, suffered with canker sores all my life and just want to save other people the agony I went through.TheLastResort44842 (talk) 19:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Need a reliable source, personal testimonial is not acceptable. WLU (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Canker Sore

Why, when I type in Canker sore, am I redirected to this page, when the very first sentance of this page links me to a different page, calling that a "Canker Sore"?

Is this the proper page for canker sores or not? Thanatosimii (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - yes bad use of redirects. Yes Canker sores are another name for Aphthous ulcers and as such the term should appear in bold and not redirect elsewhere. Currently appears as "An ''' aphthous ulcer''' is a type of [[mouth ulcer]] or [[oral ulcer|canker sore]] ..."

An aphthous ulcer is a type of mouth ulcer or canker sore ...

with mouth ulcer redirecting to oral ulcer in a case of duplicate linking. I've corrected and simplfied this to "An ''' aphthous ulcer''' (aka '''canker sore''') is a type of [[oral ulcer]] ...".

An aphthous ulcer (aka canker sore) is a type of oral ulcer ...

David Ruben ^Talk 19:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Bacteria

Not a single bacterial species is mentioned in this article!! What do you think is responsible for the ulcers?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.84.106.60 (talk) 02:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Images

There's simply too many, or at least too many in one area. They're even crowding out the headings (though even if they didn't, it's annoying to have half a screen taken up purely by images). Can we at least cut one off? Preferrably a couple, as multiple blurry images of the same thing don't really add anything. 24.76.169.85 (talk) 07:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

 Done - I've made the images smaller (290 to 150px) and forced them over to right side to avoid interupting the text headings.[2] David Ruben ^Talk 12:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)