Talk:Brede Arkless

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Sources

From Lexis-Nexis

Climber and guide to most of world's greatest ranges, The Irish Times, April 22, 2006 Saturday, OBITUARIES; Pg. 14, 748 words 24h fee
Obituary: Brede Arkless: Climber who became the first woman to join the elite rank of mountain guides, The Guardian (London) - Final Edition, April 18, 2006 Tuesday, GUARDIAN OBITUARIES PAGES; Pg. 31, 975 words, Jim Perrin [1]
Obituary of Brede Arkless Climber and mother of eight who became only the second woman to qualify as a British mountain guide, The Daily Telegraph (LONDON), April 15, 2006 Saturday, NEWS; Pg. 29, 773 words [2]
Eyebrow-raising mountain guide; BREDE ARKLESS, The Independent (London), April 10, 2006 Monday, First Edition, FEATURES; Pg. 37, 1201 words [3]
Mountain of cash, The Press (Christchurch), February 24, 2001, Saturday, FEATURES; GENERAL;, Pg. 14;, WEEKEND; WE, 674 words, HENZELL John ARKLESS Brede
A unexpectedly glorious climb in Lakeland's walled valley, The Herald (Glasgow), July 29, 2000, Pg. 11, 806 words, Alan Thomson free preview
Woman fails Everest climb, The Press (Christchurch), June 8, 2000, Thursday, NEWS; National;, Pg. 10;, IN BRIEF, 98 words
Everest abandoned, The Dominion (Wellington), June 7, 2000, Wednesday, NEWS; NATIONAL;, Pg. 1;, BRIEF, 53 words
Climber turns back, The Dominion (Wellington), May 27, 2000, Saturday, NEWS; NATIONAL;, Pg. 3;, BRIEF, 52 words
Weather delays climb, The Dominion (Wellington), May 18, 2000, Thursday, NEWS; NATIONAL;, Pg. 1;, BRIEF, 46 words
Everest bid starts, The Dominion (Wellington), May 3, 2000, Wednesday, NEWS; NATIONAL;, Pg. 1;, BRIEF, 66 words
Twizel woman could become highest ever, The Dominion (Wellington), April 22, 2000, Saturday, NEWS; NATIONAL;, Pg. 7, 223 words, ARKLESS Brede
Everest bid may produce record, The Press (Christchurch), April 22, 2000, Saturday, NEWS; National;, Pg. 4;, REGIONAL NEWS, 265 words, ARKLESS Brede
ON TOP OF THE WORLD SUMMER IS THE BEST TIME FOR A TREK UP MONT BLANC IN THE FRENCH ALPS, The Toronto Sun, August 2, 1998, Sunday,, Final EDITION, TRAVEL,, Pg. T6, 1185 words, CHRISTINA WILLIAMS, SPECIAL TO THE SUN, CHAMONIX, France [4]
Moran leads a Himalayan epic, The Herald (Glasgow), June 20, 1998, Pg. 14, 811 words, Tom Prentice free preview
Journey heading for the unknown, The Herald (Glasgow), May 9, 1998, Pg. 14, 800 words, Tom Prentice free preview

Online

Removed for fixing

I found

She ... was the first woman to qualify for admission to the International Mountain Guides' Association, UIAGM.

A glance at the linked org shows its English name is actually International Federation of Mountain Guide Associations, and its English-language page links to its list of its members (20-some in number), which (as the correct name also suggests) appear to be national associations (or regional associations within Italy) of mtn guides. (So even the description "international mountain guides' association" shows no sign of applying.) Nor does a G-search within its site show any mention of "International Mountain Guides' Association", so it is unlikely that

International Mountain Guides' Association, UIAGM

is supposed to mean (as the comma might logically suggest)

International Mountain Guides' Association, an constituent organization of UIAGM.

The G-search whose result is

22 for "International Mountain Guides' Association"

(and the use by several of them of "UIAGM" as a synonym) suggests the WP did not invent this misnomer (or obsolete or unofficial translation), but it is clearly mistaken and rare.
The article is full of dubious info, either unsourced or unreliably sourced; this is probably another example of relying on sources whose writers did no fact checking. Find out what the basis is & cite a source, or do without this.
--Jerzy•t 08:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The UIAGM homepage prominently displays the badge for mountain guides in its upper left corner. Another minute of research reveals this: IFMGA carnet. In other words, the international mountain guide certification, or "IFMGA carnet" is another level of certification from the British mountain guide, and includes the permission to guide in the Alps. ~ trialsanderrors (talk) 12:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Synth

I removed info in several places that may be accurate, but is thrown in where its logical significance seems to be hinting at unsourced (and BTW probably unverifiable) assertions. Each such instance violates WP:SYNTH.

_ _ If separating from her husband reflected either conflict between them over her mountaineering, or her experiences as a woman guide bringing her to an sense of a conflict between her aspirations and her marriage say so, document whether she merely said that or an influential source said so. If not, it doesn't bear mentioning where it appeared. Similarly for the 8 kids.
_ _ If the India trek -- between two pilgrimage sites that normally are two days apart -- passes over notably difficult terrain (rather than being neglected bcz it's indirect or was cursed 1000 years ago), name or describe it, and clarify how its non-use in the last half century or the preceding millennium and a half is verifiable. (Just bcz no one wrote about doing it since the '30s doesn't mean no one did it since, let alone that doing it using modern technology has anywhere near the significance of the '30s instance.)
_ _ If anyone notable cares about her failure at improving on a convoluted record that i've never heard my aging female mountaineering associates mention, let's hear what those who care say about it. It is logical to construe her bitterness as that of someone who probably didn't belong on Everest (about people with different wrong reasons for being there? about one person she had hoped, at a vulnerable moment, to impress more than she did?). Who notably found that bitterness influential, and if anyone, had they paid any attention to what Krakauer published before she climbed? And how and when did she react to Krakauer? Verify what makes her disillusion notable, or leave it out.
_ _ "After being diagnosed Arkless rode her bicycle more than 150 miles over high mountain passes from her home to a hospital in Christchurch for exploratory surgery, which revealed that her illness was inoperable." Hmm. People die of inoperable cancers all the time. Notable how? The bicycle is remarkable, but what makes it notable? Did she think the effort would recharge her immune system? Were the buses all booked? Was she broke? Was it the consolation prize for the Everest record she didn't set? Non-notable pending evidence of notability.

--Jerzy•t 08:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you understand the scope of Wikipedia at all. Wikipedia is a tertiary source that summarizes the available secondary sources. And secondary sources are amply provided both in the article and in the first section above. Your complaints that those events in her life don't pass your personal threshold of notability are duly noted, but irrelevant, and certainly not violations of wp:synth -- a provision you don't seem to understand either. If the secondary sources find those events notable they can be included into the article by any editor. If you question the veracity of the events, correct the language from a statement of fact to a quote with an attribution. ~ trialsanderrors (talk) 12:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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