Talk:Chefchaouen

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Chefchaouen - Arabic[edit]

شفشاون is the Arabic rendering of the town's name. The letters, from right to left are: sheen, fa, sheen, alif, waw, nun.

Octogonal minaret[edit]

The main mosque in Asilah also has an octogonal minaret. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.3.249.206 (talk) 23:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Also in Morocco: Masjid Muhammad Al-Khamis in Al Hoceima and a mosque in Azemmour have octogonal minarets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.243.95.26 (talk) 17:31, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this claim about the octagonal minaret seems completely unfounded. I'm going to remove it and if any of you can find a shred of evidence that supports it, great, but even a quick Google search seems to indicate otherwise. etothei (talk) 22:23, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate spellings/transliterations of the city's name[edit]

I have found a number of articles from old newspapers that have spelled the town's name as "Sheshaun" or "Sheshuan". The articles are from the 1920s during the Rif War, so military movements were frequently reported. I'm sure that Sheshaun is definitely meant to be Chefchaouen (or at least Chaouen), as the facts in these articles match up with other facts about the town, such as the distance from Tetouan, the year it was established and the policy of no foreigners (see this article in particular: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/66655036).

After doing some more research, I have found that it is also spelled as Xaüen, Xauen, Chaouen, Shawan, Chauen, Chefchaouence and Chechaouene (Found in this reference link from the Rif War wiki page and attributed to "Woolman, 1968").

Would it be worth adding at least a few of these alternate spellings to the article, so that users could do additional searches based on them? Mstremeski (talk) 11:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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History of the blue walls[edit]

The subject of why the city is painted blue needs to be edited for clarity, because while there might be a theory that Jewish people introduced the color to Chefchaouen in the 1930s, the fact is that the distinctive blue walls of the city predate that era by several centuries. This doesn't explain *why* the walls are painted blue, of course, but the theory itself is demonstrably inaccurate and should not be presented as if it is unproven but viable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.132 (talk) 15:19, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Sweeney[edit]

I think there is mix-up here. In the "History"-Section it is said that Charles Sweeney bombed Chefchaouen in 1925 and the article about the man who bombed Nagasaki is linked. But according to the article he was only 6 years old in 1925. Could someone clear this up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:CB:8740:2E99:2C60:310D:F553:638B (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs significant clean-up[edit]

Partly due to the recent major additions of material (e.g. this and following edits), the article needs some major clean-up work. I've tagged the most urgent ones on the page, but here is a summary of the most urgent issues that stand out:

  • Although most of the recently-added material is sourced, there are long stretches (e.g. see the "landmarks" and "traditions" sections) which have no sources/citations. Some of it looks like it could be original research that may not be verifiable with reliable sources. The material is generally relevant and clearly in good faith, but if this is a case of editors reporting personal knowledge about the city rather than reporting what reliable sources say, the most appropriate option may be to delete it. It can always be re-added later if there are supporting sources. Please consult the Verifiability policy and related policies for guidance.
  • Citations need to be properly formatted. There are currently many external links (labelled as "accessed [date]") inserted inline, which is not how sources should be cited. There are also many citations in subsequent sections that use footnotes but are not very clear because they're just plain text, including untranslated Arabic text. These should be converted to more specific footnote formats (e.g. "cite web" and related templates) so that the details of the source are clear and easy to identify (especially when they're supporting large amounts of material). Footnotes that contain plain Arabic text only are not appropriate here; English readers can't even tell what type of source they are (e.g. website? academic book?). Please see WP:CITE and related pages if you need help on how to cite.
  • The text needs to be revised for grammar, spelling, and for a more regular encyclopedic style in English. (See WP:EPSTYLE, WP:COPYEDIT, and other helpful guidelines.) Any decent copy-editor or anybody comfortable with writing in English should be able to help. Keep an eye out for slightly odd vocabulary choices (e.g. "yard" for town square) or any acronyms/abbreviations that might not be familiar to general readers (e.g. "a.s.l." for above sea level).

I've already tried to clean up some layout issues regarding sections and images, and I'll do some more when I can, but this needs more than one editor. I'm tagging Mari-Said, who made the largest recent additions, in case they can help with some of this (especially with adding sources to the unsourced material). Any other suggestions for improvements are of course also welcome. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 09:04, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Spent some time, needs a lot more work — some of it simply due to editors who know the topic but don’t have a native fluency in English, for a start. I do not object at all to such edits and in fact enjoy helping such editors meet the rather strict standards at en.wikipedia. But. I only have so many wiki hours to spend, and the article as I walk away from it this morning is extremely uneven.
  • The very professional tone in the Forest section contrasts with the anecdotal tone in the sections about traditions. I did some work here but there were a lot of language problems, and it still needs a lot of work on the tone. One question I had while working on it is whether these traditions are specific to Chefchaouen. We spend a lot of time on the wedding ceremony, for example, and if this description holds true in a larger geographical area, there is enough material for an article about the wedding ceremony. But as the article stands it devotes more attention to a wedding ceremony than to deforestation or to the history of a really ancient city. I would be interested in hearing more about these tribes competing for resources, which is only mentioned in passing.
  • As long as it can be referenced, I am not in favor of removing any information that isn’t currently available on the en.wikipedia, but it strikes me that one or more editors has tried to portray a way of life in this town, but that not all of it perhaps is unique to this city, and if so it should be in another article. Eid is celebrated and Mohammed is praised in other places, right? I am asking. Apart from the issue of focus, the language generally in this section needs work; I got some of the low-hanging fruit there but was hampered by a lack of topic knowledge.
  • Got ref tags onto the citations, so that the references at least appear in the references list, but someone who reads Arabic is needed to flesh some of them out. I improved a lot of the French-language references, and the format I used could be used as a model, if one is needed, as it would be somewhat more accessible for a new editor than a formal cite web template. But I implore anyone who steps up for this task to, if nothing else, translate the title and any other information needed to assess it, such as the date and publisher. The Arabic references do come up, with a single possible exception, and some of them appear to be al-Jazeera, which we consider just fine as far as I know, but in Arabic.
  • English Wikipedia lacks coverage in North Africa in general so I would like to encourage work on this article and expansion of the History section in particular. Elinruby (talk) 15:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot for this work, the article is already more manageable now. And I think many of your other intuitions are dead-on. Some of the info in the traditions section (and wedding section), depending on what sources say, may end up being more appropriate for an article like Culture of Morocco, if it's not distinctive to Chefchoauen. In addition to the most important Muslim Eids, Ashura and the Mawlid Nabawi (Muhammad's birthday) are also celebrated across Morocco (e.g. some basic info might be in these: [1], [2], [3]), so I don't know how much of it is specific to this city. R Prazeres (talk) 18:05, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please work on this section for tone, references[edit]

Chefchaouen wedding[edit]

Chefchaouen people have special wedding customs and rituals, from the preparations to the days after the wedding. The wedding is preceded by the marriage contract (Mlak) for a period that usually does not exceed a year. It takes place in the house of the bride’s family, in the presence of two justices, and the bride’s family with some close friends. The Mahr (i.e. the dowry) is given by the bridegroom to the bride’s father.[clarification needed] The marriage celebration usually begins on Wednesday and ends on Friday. For the bride, there is also the Dhor (noon) ceremony.

The Hammam or Henna ceremony: takes place the day before the wedding. The bride invites a group of unmarried female relatives and friends to go with her to the Hammam (traditional public bath). Then the procession returns to the bride’s house with chants and songs, while she is wrapped in a white dress called the "white Hayik", without showing her face to passers-by.

Nzoul ceremony (i.e. disembarkation): It represents the first day of the Chefchaouen wedding, and is considered as a celibacy farewell ceremony, as it is limited to inviting family and friend girls of the bride, excluding women except those close to the bride, such as sisters and aunts. On this night, the bride wears a white robe, and her face is covered with transparent apparel that hides her tears, which reflect the feelings of joy at her marriage as well as her sadness at leaving her family. Under the rhythms of praises that are sung by the Hadra, the bride’s sister or a girl of her family does what is called fal, where cotton is placed on her fingers to put a little henna on it, then another cotton is placed on top, and the hands are covered with an embroidered silk headgear, under the shrills and prayers to Muhammad.

“The Hadra of Chefchaouen” is one of the city’s special singing arts. It is a kind of ancient Sufi chanting performed by authentic women’s groups that sing poetry and prophetic praises on religious occasions. There is hardly any wedding ceremony without the Hadra.

Dhor ceremony: During this day the bride shows her face to the girls and women attending the ceremony, and she wears the Chefchaouen Shedda (a characteristic traditional dress for the Chefchaouen bride), accompanied with her Ziana (i.e. hairdresser). This latter presents the bride to the invitees and she is responsible for the smallest details related to the bride’s dress and hairstyle, as well as for helping her to walk through and sit in center of the invitees. This day is exclusively reserved for women and girls (men do not attend it). The party continues until midnight.

Al-Bouja ceremony: It is held separately in the house of the groom and the bride, where family, close friends, and neighbors gather. It is characterized by the presence of the Al-Ghaita and Tbel group (a folkloric music group formed by a set of musician men that play on two main instruments: flute (Ghaita) and drum (Tbel). At the end of the day of Al-Bouja, the groom sends a group of his family and close friends to bring the bride from her family’s house in Al-Bouja. It is a kind of Howdah or a small woody room transported by four persons - usually carried by the bride’s elder brother with the help of friends and neighbors in a joyful procession with songs, shrills and prayers to Muhammad. The procession is preceded by two young girls carrying candles and led by a musical group, while the friends of the groom's family are behind the Al-Bouja. Her mother-in-law receives the bride, offering her milk with dates, as a symbol of affection and love.

In the morning, the bride's family returns to visit and congratulate the couple, accompanied with a breakfast that includes delicious traditional sweets and gifts. The mother of the groom usually presents a golden gift to the bride.

Two days later, the day of the "meeting" will be between the families of the couple in the groom's house. The groom gives to the bride’s mother a sbnia of silk (i.e. veil), harraz (i.e. traditional belt), and sherbel (i.e. slippers).

In fact, these Chefchaouen wedding rituals and traditions have experienced many changes as a result of the immigrants and the holders of new traditions, as well as the intermarriage that took place between the Chefchaouen families and the arrival families in recent decades

Split[edit]

The Geography section (aside from the first sentence of subsection Location) and the Demographics section deal entirely with the province, not the city. The Economic activities section is also largely about the province. These should be split to the article Chefchaouen Province which is small and has plenty of room for expansion. – Reidgreg (talk) 22:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Good idea. We can even leave a "see also" header template at the top of the Geography section afterwards that links to Chefchaouen Province, if helpful. R Prazeres (talk) 23:03, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I've gone ahead and added the municipal population of the city from the 2014 census to the demographics section. I've also added the provincial population (with citation) to the Chefchaouen Province article, but I haven't removed it from this article. I'll let others delete it. R Prazeres (talk) 23:42, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Having a look at this again after all this time, so I'm going to go ahead and transfer to Chefchaouen Province everything in the geography and economy sections that's talking about the province instead of the city. If any problems arise, feel free to further discuss here. R Prazeres (talk) 19:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Transfer generally complete. Some of the content I left here is still technically talking about the province, but seems reasonably relevant enough to be retained; for example, since it's the only major city in the province, some of the economic info still mostly concerns Chefchaouen city. Some further revisions to the content itself might help. R Prazeres (talk) 19:43, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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