Talk:David Cromwell

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[edit]

This article reads rather too much like an advert for David Cromwell and Media Lens. Sempronius123 (talk) 16:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have re-worded parts of this article which have been lifted from David Cromwell's own website. I have also removed some commentary (including criticism) regarding Media Lens as this is duplicated in the Media Lens article, and also is relevant to ML rather than Cromwell. I have however added a note regarding the "Propaganda Model" recommended by ML as it is relevant to Cromwell's political orientation through his connection with Chomsky and Herman.

Oliver Kamm[edit]

I have also added material relating to Oliver Kamm's criticism of Cromwell. Kamm is a well-known author, journalist and commentator on political and historical topics and his extensive articles on his website should, I think, be regarded as notable on this account. This is not to say that they are necessarily correct. Sempronius123 (talk) 09:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kamm is not a well-known author on political and historical topics, with only a single book published in his name. Apart from that, I object to this edit on the basis of neutrality because it fails to tell us anything meaningful about the actual dispute, presenting only his side of things. Nor is this a notable issue outside of the blogosphere. [1] smb (talk) 00:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've reviewed the article on Neutrality and I can't see how the previous entry violated it. It stated simply that Oliver Kamm had stated criticisms and why. I'm not aware of any specific rebuttal from Cromwell - please feel free and post one if you know of it. We can differ on Kamm's status but aside from his book and website he is a regular columnist for the London Times and is frequently called upon to appear on TV news in the UK as an expert on foreign affairs. We'll all have to decide for ourselves whether or not this makes him better qualified to comment than a Scottish oceanographer. As for "notability", I've since re-read the guideline and it specifically applies to topic and specifically does not apply to content.

Aside from this I'll try to raise this with more experienced editors as I have neither the time nor the inclination to make a career out of this. I just get annoyed when I encounter so-called "media monitors" who seemingly can't take criticism themselves. Sempronius123 (talk) 11:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A political activist with a professional background in economics, Kamm is co-manager of a pan-European investment bank. He's actually a guest contributor (not a regular columnist) for The Times of London (prominence gained partly through his obsessive sniping at Noam Chomsky, whom he dislikes intensely). He makes irregular appearances on radio and television to offer his opinion on political issues, much like any other political activist.
Please don't be annoyed. If your emotions are getting in the way and you feel personally motivated, then it's probably a good idea to back away, leaving disinterested editors to craft this aspect of the page (i.e. summarise the dispute). smb (talk) 15:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. My annoyance is not with you personally, although I am not entirely convinced by your reasoning - which is why I am backing away in order to allow for other opinions. Sempronius123 (talk) 23:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Is reference to Oliver Kamm's criticism of David Cromwell appropriate in this article[edit]

David Cromwell's father[edit]

A 'new user' (Zrdragon12) keeps reverting my edit "an activist and communist' sympathiser" which I substituted for my earlier version "a 'Daily Worker' (now the 'Morning Star') paper seller". The source says Mr Cromwell's dad "sold" the Daily Worker (the name change occurred in 1966), but DC objects to this. I post the following transient post (it will be off-line in a month or so) from the Media Lens Message Board:

"Another example: a new edit to the Wikipedia entry for David Cromwell:

'... the son of a Daily Worker (now the Morning Star) paper seller.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cromwell

As if that's an occupation?! Why not say 'telephone engineer' or 'geography teacher'?

Or if we stick to [Philip] Cross's scheme, we could have:

'... the son of flautist/pennywhistler/former Boys' Brigade/keen hillwalker/....'

Comical stuff from 'PC'.

DC [End]"

Comments please. Philip Cross (talk) 14:01, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notability[edit]

I have considered adding the template recommending WP content be merged into another article, both here and to the David Edwards piece. In this case to Media Lens. When other user’s have added the template elsewhere, the suggestions often remain in place for years without a solution. Mr Crowell and Mr Edwards’ are principally known for the ML website rather than for the books they have authored separately. I chose not to add the template, partly for the reason already stated, but in addition because his and Mr Edwards’ biographical details are of some interest, and would unnecessarily clutter the opening of the ML article if included there. The comments by John Pilger and Oliver Kamm about his writings help establish Mr Cromwell’s ‘notability’ as distinct from that of Media Lens.

Oliver Kamm’s criticism of Media Lens itself does not belong here, but some of the material deleted by ‘new‘ user Zrdragon12, are comments about Mr Cromwell himself and, although it is material which appeared IIRC as an ML ‘alert’, it should remain in the article. Philip Cross (talk) 15:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notability now established.The article is no longer dependent "on references to primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject", and for this reason I have removed the primary sources template. Philip Cross (talk) 15:59, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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hey guys ! I've never edited a Wikipedia article so I don't really know what to do but Cromwell has written more than two books with Edwards; they wrote one in 2018 called Propaganda Blitz, published by Pluto Press. 146.176.182.40 (talk) 09:58, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks mate. The 2018 book has now been added to Cromwell's bio. Burrobert (talk) 12:11, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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