Talk:Edward Haughey, Baron Ballyedmond

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Nationality[edit]

Ballyedmond was born and educated in the ROI - not that that makes any difference, he's categorically Irish. Perhaps northern (with a deliberate minuscule, as arguably Louth lies in the northern half of the island) Irish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belacqua Shuah (talk • contribs) 18:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He is a British peer residing in the United Kingdom. His business empire is massively, if not entirely in the UK. He is Northern Irish.Traditional unionist (talk) 18:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then why not persistently change his nationality to British, or American for that matter since he lived there for a brief time. He was born in Kilcurry, County Louth, served two terms in the Irish senate. He is Irish.Belacqua Shuah (talk) 20:50, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A number of matters here, First, unless you are he, you can't say that definitively. Secondly, he is resident in Northern Ireland, and his business interests are almost exclusively in Northern Ireland and elsewhere in the UK. This came up recently somewhere else, and the end game will likely be to name him British. Or British and Irish.Traditional unionist (talk) 20:52, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

British and Irish would be more accurate.Belacqua Shuah (talk) 20:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where's the proof? He's a native of County Louth and therefore automatically Irish - verifiable fact. Everything else is conjecture. Also according to this he splits his time between Ballyedmond and Cumbria, not Northern Ireland. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His house is called Ballyedmond Castle. It's outside Rostrevor.Traditional unionist (talk) 23:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

....which still doesn't prove he is "Northern Irish" (sic) or British. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He's British (or maybe Australian &c, ie. a subject of the Crown), otherwise he can't receive a peerage. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 00:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He's verifiably Irish. If you have sources to prove otherwise, please cite them. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just included one; to get a peerage he must be a subject to the Crown. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 00:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite a souce that says Haughey is British, not conjecture. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite the exact phrase from the Companion that sources the addition you have made. Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Irish-born" seems acceptable, if it's really causing offense (although it sounds as if he is no-longer living in Ireland or not actually Irish, neither of which is actually true). I don't see the issue. It seems cut and dry to me, from whatever perspective you come at it from ("... an Irish-born resident of Northern Ireland, who was raised and educated in Republic of Ireland to Irish parents, served in the Irish senate and possesses an Irish peerage..."? Hmmm. Someone's politics is getting the better of them IMHO).

"He's British (or maybe Australian &c, ie. a subject of the Crown), otherwise he can't receive a peerage." He already possessed a peerage, it was not bestowed upon him. --sony-youth^pléigh 06:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It was bestowed upon him. It's not a peerage in the Peerage of Ireland, it is a Life peerage in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 09:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Life Peerages Act 1958 says nothing about being a subject of the Crown or a British citizen. In absence of this, I'd like to see a source to demonstrate this point, or that he acquired British nationality. In the meantime, I've made an edit which I hope satisifes both sides at least provisionally. --Breadandcheese (talk) 12:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The source is the Companion to the Standing Orders of the House of Lords, as given. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 13:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why have you failed to answer my question above then? Please cite the exact phrase(s) from the Companion that sources the addition you made. Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 13:28, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The addition of "born" is slightly redundant and still tends to suggest he isn't still Irish, other than that I've no objection to the change. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever his 'nationality/citizenship' would be upon his death? that's what's required. If we go strictly by birth? George Washington would be British. GoodDay (talk) 15:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A pretty good point that is.Traditional unionist (talk) 16:06, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you really suggesting that anyone who moves to a different country automatically becomes a citizen/national of that country? Verifiable evidence is required. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does the Baron consider himself? British or Irish. GoodDay (talk) 18:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Compare and contrast: Detta O'Cathain, Baroness O'Cathain, Sir Anthony O'Reilly, Lord Longford et al. Dual citizenship is a fact of life. My wife and 3 children (born in NI) are all dual passport holders (British & Irish). Although I was born in the Republic, there were no objections to me applying for a British passport (in the end I renewed my Irish passport). We should reflect reality in Wikipedia! PeterClarke 19:19, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody is saying we shouldn't. However where's the evidence he has dual citizenship? All I've seen so far is conjecture based on where he lives, or vague references to the Companion to the Standing Orders which the editor has thus far failed to explain. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:23, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the Baron can be described as an Irish-Briton. GoodDay (talk) 19:30, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"It was bestowed upon him." Right you are. I've rewritten the page to remove the source of the dispute. This edit, apart from being original research (though synthesis), only serves to escalate the cause of the disagreement (i.e. would only be answered by saying that he was born/raised in the 26 counties thus must be an Irish citizen etc. etc. etc.) Also, being born pre-1949 in the 26 counties of course he is a British subject! --sony-youth^pléigh 21:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a fine rewrite. No harm in dispensing with the crudities of nationality in the header.Belacqua Shuah (talk) 22:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

agree. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know this is a thorny subject, but as Haughey's OBE and his peerage were substantive, not honorary, then he must have had some claim to UK nationality, via parents, marriage, naturalisation, whatever.
(Not yelling just using bold to capture the attention of my peers.) Any insights?? Quis separabit? 18:30, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Removal[edit]

I've taken out the penultimate paragraph of this article, as it is complete ballix. This is supposed to be an encyclopaedia. It is not supposed to be a below-average first former's homework.

I suggest a rewrite and reinsertion of the material once context can be understood and the facts can be verified. What do the two fragments, "The reasons for doing so were diverse." and "Haughey's use of ex-RUC personnel and dismissive dealings with staff in the local area." even mean?

Does Wikipedia have an English language project or task force perhaps? It certainly needs one!

I believe this link refers to my edit. --86.153.37.24 (talk) 03:21, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reactions to death[edit]

The [Irish Times has a range of comments from various people in reaction the the deathof Baron Baloloyedmond. Mjroots (talk) 17:27, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

'Northern Irish'[edit]

Yes, but the link should be in that phrase rather than later on, surely? Harfarhs (talk) 22:22, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe so. Also, has Category:People from Northern Ireland been fully considered yet? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know whether one needs to have been born within Northern Ireland to qualify. Harfarhs (talk) 22:48, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So maybe Category:Irish people? Currently we have only Category:Irish expatriates in the United States? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's a sub-category there for people from NI, so I've added 'Irish people'. Harfarhs (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

'..Ireland 250 member list'[edit]

What is this? I've looked in sources [3] [4] and [5], and it doesn't seem to be mentioned in them. It isn't even in a good sentence. Harfarhs (talk) 22:46, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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