Talk:Egypt/Archive 2

Arab identity

I do not agree with friends that have expressed their opinions up there. The term Arab is really undefined and unclear. If it is just explain it. That was just I wanted. This is not racism. Why are you accusing people without any evidence and support. As a non-Arab, I wonder how Egyptians and others like Syrians called them Arab...? For example in the Latin American, they don't believe that they have a special relation with Spain and Spanish people. Their are Latins who were affected by Spanish culture . Be logical. Stay logical. Even Iran and Pakistanis and other countries could have been practicing Arabic and switching Arabic languages instead of their own languages. Would you then have called them Arabs? Although so-called Arabs and Kurds and Iranians and other middle Easterners have almost the same culture with same hospitality and kindness and history, they are different indeed. Egyptians are different that Syrians. The people who try to join them that way with force are really illogical. They may try to do sth better.

Secondly, exactly on contrary to what just you said, that is racism that people who call themselves Arab stress on this issue. Usually those people are accused of racism because they don't treat Kurds and Iranians and Pakistanis and Jews nice. Every logical person would confirm my claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by . 213.42.21.77 (talk • contribs)

The question of identity rests on factors not always having to do with origins. Arab identity today is for the most part a nationalist concept. Egyptians in fact were not described as "Arab" in medieval literature, such Maqrizi's, until the 19th century but as either Egyptians or occasionally Copts (inc. Muslims). Egyptians, in the majority, were simply Muslims. It was commonly understood that an Arab in Egypt was a member of the Bedouin and Ashraf minorities, or an inhabitant of the Arabian Peninsula. So it's true that most of those who would consider themselves Arab today are not Arab in origin. Arab nationalists will maintain that anyone who speaks Arabic is automatically an Arab (though it's arguable whether there is only one "Arabic" ). In Egypt (and Lebanon), this question however has been frequently debated. Nasser popularized the idea in Egypt, though when Sadat came to power it was once again relegated. Most Egyptian anti-colonial nationalists until the 30s or 40s were disengaged from Arabism and the newly constructed "Arab world" (the former Ottoman Empire), and some like Mustafa Kamil were openly hostile to the idea. It's a long discussion with strong and heated opinions on each end of the spectrum. If you ask two Egyptians whether they consider themselves Arab, you'll probably get three different answers! For a critique of Arab nationalism from an Egyptian point of view, see Leila Ahmed. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 18:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I am Egyptian. I add that in the Arab world the word Arab has two meanings:

1. An Arab is a person who speaks Arabic as a native language, so, Sudan and Somalia are Arab countries but Pakistan and Turkey are not.
2. An Arab is a person from the Arabian Peninsula.

The first meaning is more commonly used as in the Arab world it is considered that there are 22 Arab countries only 6 of them are in the Arabian Peninsula.

--Meno25 06:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I am Turkish and let me say, Meno 25, it is quite ridiculous to state that Turkey is not an arab country. Do you think that Turkey is part of the Arabic World? First and foremost, Turks speak Turkish. As Turkey is established on Anatolian Peninsula and a substantial part thereof is in the European Continent, it is unnecessary to define Turkey as a non-arab country. Don't you think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syuksel (talk • contribs) 21:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

Egypt in Africa

I want to ask a question: someone told me that Egypt should not really be considered as a African country because Egyptians do not really consider themselves to be Africans. How would Egyptians respond to this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 100%RSA (talk • contribs)

Although not Egyptian myself, I can speak as a Brit as my country has a similar feeling. Many Britons have no sense of identity with Europe - we are British, not European. But geographically, Britain is in Europe, so it's considered a European country. I'd say similar about Eygpt being an African country, regardless of what sense of identity the population has. NeilSenna 14:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I am an African-American and Egypt is an African nation. Arabs did not move in until the 9th century common era. They may not consider themselved Egyptian, but the anciety Egyptians were not Arab or White. The face of the Spinx still has dark brown face paint on its side with the face of a "Negroid". Many feel that Egypt has set up its own version of an apartheid goverment to suppress Blacks and all other ethnic groups there.

There is certainly no face-paint on the sphinx - none could have survived in the open over all this time (along with regular sand-storm blasting). Of course, face-paint does survive on many egyptian statues found in tombs. They vary dramatically in pigmentation. Egypt is, of course in Africa, but that's a fact of our geographical categories, not racial or cultural ones. It's a transitional loation. Paul B 17:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not Egyptian,..and it's obvious that Egyptians don't consider themeselves Africans.., I'm Moroccan and this is the same feeling across North Africa (Algeria, Tunisia, Libya..), we share the same culture, language, religion and tradition which have nothing to do with been located geographycally in Africa...;--Yunis79 12:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I am Egyptian. It is true that some Egyptians does not consider themselves Africans. However, some others do. But in Wikipedia we classify Egypt as an African country because it is geographically located in Africa.

--Meno25 06:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I am Egyptian, and i believe that besides egypt is an african country geographically, there is also a strong historical and cultural relation to africa because of the river nile, but coming to the people we can not consider egyptian people as black african in ancient egypt as well as today, the question "are they black or white? is not applicable here, egyptians are egyptians. You can check the article about egyptian people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_people#Origins. NewDawn 04:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Population Ranking

In the introduction paragraphs it is stated that Egypt is the fifteenth most populous country, but in the summary sidebar it is said to be ranked 16 in population. Which one is it?

Answer: It is the 15th most populous country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isis456 (talk • contribs)

GA Review

The Good Article review on this article has ended, with a 3 to 1 vote, this article has been relisted. (The 1 against was the anon who first delisted) Primarily, this was because this anon appears to of just randomly delisted it, that's not right :/. Review archived at Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 8, I think there's a few suggestions in there for the article as well. Homestarmy 20:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Population

Nowadays in Egypt it is noticed that the population is increasing day by day whereas the population in South Africa is being less. Is that true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.184.50.144 (talk • contribs)

Population in Egypt increases by about 1.4 million every year which is a very high rate.

--Meno25 02:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Egypt at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Egypt. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:38, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work. I added my name.

--Meno25 02:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Canal of the Pharaohs

• Adding information on the ancient Canal of the Pharoahs (now stubbed in as Canal of the Pharaohs) which dated back to the early Egyptian Kingdom period, was improved significantly by Rameses the Great (II), was uninterned (sic) by Cyrus the Great, and maintained and improved during Roman times; eventually swallowed again by the desert sands circa the early middle ages such that it was viable perhaps up into the early Islamic period.

• Stimulus + Base info--History channel on Suez canal. This all needs researched, specifics nailed down, and then written into the article. The earliest canal apparently cut across to the Nile from the Suez lakes from circa or annedating 1500 BC. Fabartus

Kemet

≈I would like to see empirical evidence that all ancient Egyptians referred to their country as Kmt or Kemet or Khemt while the Coptic meaning of this word means black I have not come across a reference that the Egypitans themselves referred to the entire country as that since it refers only to Lower Egypt and not the entire country. Unless there is substanial proof to justify the statement with references sited I think that this comment should be removed or at least be preceded with the cavet that this is not supported by any historical evidence is only the supposition of Afrocentrism. I have seen this type of statement continually used in reference to Egypt and all without siting references to justify its use. Since this appears to be a purely political statement without historical reference it would be better place in such a section rather than one concerned with history of the region Setianheru 20:05, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Military

I added a {{Fact}} to the statement 'The Egyptian Air Force has roughly the same number of modern warplanes as the Israeli Air Force and far more Western tanks, artillery, anti-aircraft batteries and warships than the IDF has. [1]'

The article author states this without any numbers or sources to his own claims, yet a quick look at globalsecurity.org tells you that Israel has 1681 modern Merkava tanks against Egypt's 880 modern M1 Abrams tanks. The Egyptian Navy consists of sorely outdated Soviet Romeo-class submarines and various handover frigates from the U.S. and Europe, while the Israeli Sea Corps operates cutting edge stealth corvettes and completely new German-built Dolphin submarines. The Egyptian air force operates 224 F-16A and F-16C aircraft, while the Israeli air force operates 85 F-16A and 124 F-16C aircraft in addition to the newly-developed F-16I with 102 on order and 12 of these delivered. The IAF also operates 60 F-15 fighters and 25 F-15I strike aircraft, which Egypt were denied purchase of. The source of the original statement appears to be a paranoid hawk looking to instill doubt and thoughts of future wars. I say, replace the statement with something more factual. --Joffeloff 18:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I am definitely no expert here, and am not particularly fond of that section, but I couldn't verify the 880 figure from the source you gave. It also appears a little dated (2001?). AAR, if it's a question of WP:VER or WP:RS, the Haaretz article fulfills both so it doesn't make sense to add the {{Fact}} tag to a cited statement. I am going to reword it to read, "According to..." in keeping with the verifiability requirement, but you might want to balance it by adding other information. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 05:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Egypt has always had more good equipment than Israel and their army always seemed stronger but every time they fought a war against Israel they lost ans that is why they say Israel has a stronger army Kermanshahi 18:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

90% of Egyptian Christians are Coptic?

In The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria article, it states that over 95% of Egyptian Christians are of that church, however, this article states taht it is only 90%... what's the correct number? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IronCrow (talk • contribs) 03:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

Coptic Patriarch has "Followers in Syria"?

This isn't correct. Unlike Ethiopia and Eritrea, the Syrian church was never part of or subordinate to the Coptic Patriarch, though they are undoubtedly co-religionists. The churches Ethiopia (and Eritrea) were indeed part of the Coptic church at least in theory, but were granted autocephaly (more or less this means independence) in the 1950s. -- 85.182.127.103 22:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page was blocked for editing, but whoever blocked it forgot to remove the starbucks link on the top. Someone either remove it or unprotect the page so someone else can.

Oldest nation on earth?

Well??

-G

LARGEST CITY?

someone please explain this one part where it says cairo is the largest city in africa and the middle east.....do they mean geographicaly or by modernization?.....because what about dhubai?, and other 1st world cities in UAE......

Cairo has more people

millitary of Egypt

Egypt doesn't have a stronger army than iran, Iran outnumbers and outequips egypts army, althoug egypt has more aircrafts you should not underestimate irans airforce. Iran allso has high tech missiles like the fajr-3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.73.138.90 (talk • contribs)

where did you get your information that Iran outnumbers & outequips the Egyptian army ? the Egyptian army are larger than Iran's , Egypt has more of everything , Tanks , Aircrats , War Ships , Submarines . —Preceding unsigned comment added by LeCaire (talk • contribs)

active troops iran has got 545,000 and egypt has got 450,000 if you look at the total troops it is even wors for egypt as iran has got 12,285,000 soldiers an egypt has only got 1,109,000 soldiers. Egypt might have more planes but Iran has a large amounth of Un manned Areal Vehicles wich can also fitht. Egypt has got more tanks but they do not have more War Ships, Egypt has got 90 War Ships and Iran has got 130. Also Iran has got more helicopters and more armoured vehicles, submarines i don't know which one has more Iran has got 9 how much has Egypt got? If you read about any of the wars between egypt and israel you see that egypt had much more but always lost, they hade planes in the open so that their airforce could be destroid on land and their soldiers just simply ren away.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.73.138.90 (talk • contribs)

Films shot in Egypt

I don't know if this is the place to put it but, the films shot in Egypt section is the same as the climate section, which has the correct information.

Religion

Can someone please explain why the segment on religion states that 90% of the population is Muslim when it then goes on to say that 15% of the population is Christian? Perhaps people adhere to more than one? Or maybe someone doesn't know their math. Either way, This is a glaring and confusing mistake, can someone please fix this up.74.99.7.88 02:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Languages at the infobox: Masri?

Okay, does Masri/Egyptian Arabic count as a official language of Egypt? NO, as it is only a dialect of Arabic, and if applying this to Egypt, that would mean that we would have to add Syrian Arabic for Syria, Darja for Algeria, Tunisia, Western Sahara or Morocco, so it should get out of the infobox. The languages section has enought place for this.Peace! --escondites 14:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Morocco has Moroccan Arabic listed in the infobox next to the offical arabic and Amazigh. Besides it doesn't matter what other countries have listed, this is an article about Egypt where the spoken language plays a very important national role in the media, a lot more than it does in other countries. It would be ridiculous not to mention it. Egyegy 16:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Masri as official language?

Let me make this clear...an official language is one approved by the state to be the language of education and the one used by the people under its sovereignity. Is the dialect approved by the state as an official language? No? Then I'll take it off. We're here to produce factual data not push political idealogies and our POVs. 213.42.2.11

CIA Factbook

Some of the history portion is directly copied from the CIA World Factbook's intro...i'm not a wiki expert, but is this standard policy?

Here's the link: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/eg.html#Intro

It could be that the CIA factbook copied wiki. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.140.202.1 (talk) 04:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC).