Talk:Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf

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Holy hell this article looks like it was sponsored by Al Qaeda.

Where is the proof that Ka'ab indeed praise the Quraysh to attack prophet Muhammad and his Companions? As far as I know even Islamic scholars are differed in their opinions and they tend to answer according to their own opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.54.106.25 (talk) 20:49, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Surah Nisa: Verse 51 was revealed regarding his (Kaab ibn Al-Ashraf) visit to Mecca. This is the details of the story. Ibn Hatim recorded that Ikrimah said, “Huyayy ibn Akhtab and Kaab ibn Ashraf (two Jewish leaders) came to the people of Makkah who said to them, ‘You (Jews) are people of the Book and knowledge, so judge us and Muhammad”. They said, “Describe yourselves and describe Muhammad”. They said, “We keep relationship with kith and kin, slaughter camels (for the poor), release the indebted and provide water for the pilgrims. As for Muhammad he is without male children, he severed our relations, and the thieves who rob pilgrims (the tribe of Ghifar) follow him. So who is better, us or him?” They said, “You are more righteous and better guided.” Thereafter, Allah sent down ayah 51. This story was also reported from Ibn Abbas and several others among the Salaf.

I don't see how the scholars differ regarding this issue when even the best known Quran exegesis (Ibn Abbas) narrated this story regarding verse 51 of Sura Nisa and it was agreed by the salaf (earlier generations of Muslims) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.195.8.154 (talk) 17:27, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

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Furthermore, if anyone wants to see a different perspective of why Ka'b was killed look at this site:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_silas_2.htm

Whoever wrote this article about Ka'b is probably non-muslim and it sounds like he gives anti-muslims the benefit of the doubt. Ka'b committed treason, which is still punishible today by death in the USA because his tribe signed a peace treaty with muslims then he went to instigate the enemies of the muslims just because Prophet Muhammad killed 3 war criminals of the 73 prisoner of war that he captured. These 3 war criminals, such as Utba, had tortured and killed muslims in Mecca just because they refused to leave their newly embraced faith. Shed no tears for these men or Ka'b who one can compare to Tokyo Rose. Would any of you shed a tear if Tokyo Rose was killed for spewing Japanese Propaganda against the USA in World War 2? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.97.84.243 (talk • contribs) .

Can you cite any sources here? Even just a news article would help! EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 21:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

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Great work you did on this article Pecher. I was going to work on it but you did all I wanted to do. Thanks OceanSplash19:12 30, May 2006

“Because the norms of the Arab society of that period demanded retaliation for a slight to a group's honor,[2] Muhammad called upon his followers to kill Ka'b”. I am not sure whether it is true that the norms of the Arab society of that period demanded that if someone writes a romantic poetry about a woman, his blood must be shed. However the hadith specifies clearly why Muhammad ordered the assassination of Ka’b. It’s because he had been critical of Muhammad after he banished the Bani Qaynuqa and had been writing poetries. This hurt Allah and His Apostle and that is why Muhammad ordered his assassination. OceanSplash19:56 31, May 2006

The stuff on the norms of the Arab society is sourced. Pecher ^Talk 19:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Those are excuses of Ibn Hisham to justify the assassination of Ka’b. The pre Islamic literature is full of romantic poetry and love songs. The woman in question for whose beauty and slenderness K’ab composed his poetry was not related to Muhammad. The actual motivation for the assassination was given by Muhammad himself. Ka’b was critical of Muhammad banishment of the Bani Qaynuqa, feared similar fate for his own people Bani Nadir and was seeking the protection of the Quraish for his tribe. Muhammad, unable to tolerate opposition, ordered his assassination. We should also write about the assassinations of Asma Bint Marwa, Abu Afak and Abu Rafi and the cold blooded murder of Al-Nadr bin al-Harith and `Uqba bin Abi Mu`ayt. There are more OceanSplash20:52 31, May 2006

I think its inclusion violates NPOV, because it's outright excusing the behavior as though he had no choice in the matter. In an article about anyone else, such an attempt to excuse the behavior, attributing it to the culture of the place and time as though the individual in question had no choice, would never qualify as NPOV, and most regular people have a lot more pressure on them to follow cultural norms. Mohammed was the founder of a religion, and was certainly NOT bound by cultural norms. I don't recall anything about religious leaders like Jesus or Sadarta following cultural norms just because they were cultural norms. Hell, the message of Jesus was to pray for your enemies, even as they watch you slowly die nailed to a cross, which was a complete 180 on the cultural norms of his time. Founders of religions are by their very nature revolutionaries in terms of changing cultural norms, so if anyone could get away with breaking such a tradition it was Mohammed, as his influence on Islam is at least as great as Jesus' influence on Christianity. He could've done whatever he wanted (or, if you actually believe him, then whatever "Allah" wanted) and he (or perhaps "Allah") chose murder. Those are the facts, and attempts to downplay them have no place here; this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a fansite for Islam or Mohammed. Rich333 06:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

You are the one trying to impose your views on Jesus as "morally superior" than Muhammad. Not bound by cultural norms? Then why didn't Jesus just straight out prohibit slavery and call for the equality treatment between both sexes? Why did Moses and Joshua slaughtered and rape countless of Philistines, Canaanites, Amorites, Amalekites and the people of Midian? Was he not following the traditions of the earlier Akkadian empire and influenced the later Assyrian empire? And this is an encyclopedia, where both sides of the coins from a historical perspective have to be told. Telling only one said of either story is insufficient as it lead to bias perspectives. As such we have views from Islamic scholars, and we also have views regarding this assassination from Western scholars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.195.8.154 (talk) 17:10, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

1- ka'b ibn al-ashraf could not have been born to an arab muslim because he was the chief of the tribe. based on old customs back then he must've gained enough wisdom through age to be the chief of the tribe. Gabriel Appeared to the "Prophet" Mohammed for the first time in 610 which means only 14 years prior to Ka'b's death. if we to assume ka'b's father was a muslim by birth, then its means ka'b's father was only 14 years old when Ka'b was killed. it is possible though that his father embraced islam later on in his life.

2- he was not assassinate since assassination is usually done in secrecy without declarations. he was simply executed. wether his execution was just or not; we can say his execution was a step in establishing the culturally and knowledge rich empire of islam. it was certain he influenced unrest in makkah and madinah since the muslims formed a threat to him. as for the claims that he was assassinated for his poems; there were many poets paganists and jews who wrote in details romance and women. at no point in the "Prophet's" life, he applied islamic laws to jews or christians nore did the rashidun caliphs. politically, it is not wise to break that tradition and cause unrest between muslims and jews. also unwise to make such breach only once which makes it appear doubtable be muslims too. and most scholars see the "Prophet" as a very wise politician. islamic historians state that when ka'b was provoking quraysh against islam; the muslims realize his treacherous intentions. the "Prophet" sent a group of muslims included two of ka'b's blood-brothers to play a role of defects of muslims. they asked ka'b to provide food and weapons. ka'b did not hesitate in providing weapons to support their uprising; breaking all treaties . he was then arrested red-handed and sentenced to death.

http://sirah.al-islam.com/Display.asp?f=rwd3144

Samz851 (talk) 22:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

This ENTIRE article is FULL OF POV AND STUPIDITY. Little to no sources and what sources there are are either irrelevant, biased, or have no connection whatsoever to this poet. Its saddening how such articles are left like this for the public to be misunderstood on. I will be editing this, to make people understand the background of all this. TelusFielder (talk) 04:47, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Where is the evidence that Ka'ab really praising Prophet Muhammad's enemies to annihilate them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.54.106.25 (talk) 20:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

The evidence is in Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah (p. 365 in Guillaume's translation), where a poem written by Kaab is quoted. The first eighteen lines of the poem are a lament for friends of his who died at the Battle of Badr. The last three lines read:

I was told that Al-Harith ibn Hisham

is doing well and gathering troops to visit Yathrib with armies,

for only the noble, handsome man protects the loftiest reputation.

Although it is more descriptive than prescriptive, Kaab's words show a definite approval of Muhammad's enemies.

Ibn Ishaq portrays Kaab as a villain, so of the poems of Kaab known to Ibn Ishaq, this was probably the most inflammatory.Petra MacDonald 05:59, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

I find it funny that people are questioning the evidence regarding the details of the assassination of Kaab ibn Al-Ashraf's when most Quran exegesis agreed that Surah Nisa: Verse 51 was revealed regarding his visit to Mecca. This is the details of the story.

Ibn Hatim recorded that Ikrimah said, “Huyayy ibn Akhtab and Kaab ibn Ashraf (two Jewish leaders) came to the people of Makkah who said to them, ‘You (Jews) are people of the Book and knowledge, so judge us and Muhammad”. They said, “Describe yourselves and describe Muhammad”. They said, “We keep relationship with kith and kin, slaughter camels (for the poor), release the indebted and provide water for the pilgrims. As for Muhammad he is without male children, he severed our relations, and the thieves who rob pilgrims (the tribe of Ghifar) follow him. So who is better, us or him?” They said, “You are more righteous and better guided.”

Thereafter, Allah sent down ayah 51. This story was also reported from Ibn Abbas and several others among the Salaf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.195.8.154 (talk) 17:23, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Hebrew

Is the name Ka'ab a Hebrew name? Or the name Al-Ashraf? Are these names Hebrew??--SharabSalam (talk) 03:16, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

No, they are Arab names. They approximate to "Wolf, son of the Nobleman". It was usual for Arabian Jews to have an Arab name, used in public space when interacting with Gentiles, and a Hebrew name, used in private with other Jews. The Arabian historians did not necessarily know a Jew's Hebrew name, so most of them are recorded under the names known to the Arabs.01:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC)