Talk:Lisa (Planet of the Apes)

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I can't beleive that by trying to improve the accuracy of this entry I have been accused of vandalism. The entry incorrectly identifies Lisa as the female chimp in the breeding annex. I corrected this error only to be accused of vandalism. If anyone doubts that Lisa is not the chimp in the breeding annex and the description I made as to Lisa and Caesar's meeting, please go and read the film's script: http://pota.goatley.com/scripts/pota_conquest_finalshooting.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.75.51 (talk • contribs)

Let's not forget that what's actually filmed (or makes the final cut) may not necessarily be 100% true to the shooting script. (Luke Skywalker was still "Luke Starkiller" on the copies used at the early Star Wars shoots, for just one example.) No other female ape is credited with that role in the movie (and one would think they'd at least give her a name in the screen credits), and for my money, the one onscreen looks and acts like Lisa, well enough. Can you tell us who it is (or played her), if it isn't? (I believe you're right though, about the earlier bookstore sighting. Good eye there... or did you read about it first?) Zephyrad (talk) 18:34, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Breeding Annex Chimp[edit]

Just because other films may differ from the shooting script doesn't mean Conquest did in this respect. And it is not unusual for a bit player with no lines not to be credited. As far as the look of the female, the chimp in the breeding annex is very flirty while the charater of Lisa is shy and deferential. And since the no evidence exists that proves that Lisa was the chimp in the breeding annex and the only evidence that does exist says she wasn't; the only reasonable conclusion is that she wasn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.75.51 (talk) 07:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Females of many breeds can behave one way in one setting, and quite differently in another. The female chimp may have been seductive toward Caesar because she knew she was expected to become pregnant, and was "doing her job" the way Caesar was expected to do his, of impregnating her. With the city in revolt, she was facing an uncertain future, and it's easy to become timid in such a situation. And just because we don't have evidence present, I wouldn't conclude "the no evidence exists", as you have done. Zephyrad (talk) 14:08, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well present the evidence that Lisa is the chimp in the breeding annex. I've presented the evidence that she wasn't. I'm still waiting for you to present something tangible that refutes it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.75.51 (talk • contribs)

But your evidence isn't conclusive. Since neither you nor your sources have named another chimp (or an actress who played that chimp), there is still room for doubt, and you haven't otherwise explained how Lisa and Caesar became close, or why he would listen to her at the end. (The shooting script you contine to mention also doesn't have the last several minutes of dialogue, added later. Do those now disappear from consideration? Should their details be removed from future Apes commentary?) I have discussed the likelihood that the chimp was Lisa, and employed Occam's Razor. (And she still looks like Lisa to me.) Zephyrad (talk) 23:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My evidence is far more conclusive than anything you've presented which is nothing. Just that you think the chimp in the breeding annex looks like Lisa. My evidence is verifiable by reading the script. Your's is based purely on assumption. The burden of proof is on you not on me. --67.244.75.51 (talk) 00:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]