Talk:Natural building

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2021 and 11 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: TobeyG.CU.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Pise

I came across a reference to PISÉ (Pneumatically Impacted Stabilized Earth) (see for example, Rammed Earth Works-PISE. It may be of interest. --Singkong2005 05:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merger with Green building

It seems that there is a great deal of overlap between this article and Green building. I'm not certain which is the predominant term to merge them under, though.--Jrsnbarn 15:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I would venture an opinion that using the term Green carries emotional conotations, both negative and positive. Natural would be a more neutral term, if that is your goal.--James52 04:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a somewhat contentious issue among natural/green builders. While not the definitive statement about the topic, one could theoretically rephrase the distinction as industrial and nonindustrial ecological building approaches. Those who consider themselves "natural" builders often shun association with the larger green building movement, though a significant faction consider themselves charged with mainstreaming "natural building" techniques. There is much to say here, and not necessairly of an antagonistic nature. The entire topic could use some attention, and some feelers are being sent out now to look at clarifying and expanding these resources. A hearty start, and thanks to all who've contributed! Quiethand 03:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

An example to support Quiethand's paragraph: Cordwood construction would be considered a 'natural building' method by some, as it's intended to use less non-human energy for the construction. However, all that concrete in the mortar mixture would kill the idea of it being a 'green' method in many peoples' minds. Doing the same method with 'cob' (a mixture of clay and a fiber (like straw or grasses) would be acceptable in many more of those minds. So the line is very difficult to draw. --Kickstart70-T-C 05:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate the distinction that you've drawn betwen natural and green builders. I don't see that clarity in the articles themselves, but perhaps if they were merged, a paragraph could be written to ditinguish the two. Building techniques could then be described in their sections as being considered less green or more natural, etc. Alternatively, perhaps the building techniques are moved to their own article and be natural/green agnositic. They could simply be referenced by the natural or green article. I'm less in favour of this approach because it would make for three short article where I believe one could do a nice job.--Jrsnbarn 14:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Jrsnbarn that there is a lack of clarity in the articles as to the distinction between green and natural building. The problem lies primarily with the Green building article, IMO. Someone has included sections in it on straw bale and rammed earth, which are generally considered Natural building methods. Green building in North America is defined by the LEED Standards. Natural building is generally considered to go much farther in the direction of sustainability. There is a great deal of cruft in the Green building article and someone has rightly put a clean-up tag on it. On the other hand, the Natural building article seems fine. In any case we should maintain two separate articles as these are, in practice, (despite some inevitable overlap), two distinct approaches to building more sustainably. Sunray 07:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for the question on my user page. For me, and I know for many others, 'natural building' covers the use of natural materials such as cob, straw, oak timber, earth bag etc. The houses that result are probably quite 'green' but not necessarily. I use 'green' to mean ecological, that is not requiring much external energy to maintain a comfortable interior environment. My view is a green house can be made from non-natural materials.

So for me, 'green' and 'natural' building are quite different.

Regards, Oliver Naturalhomes 22.00, 31 March 2007 (CET)

I think Sunray has done his best by removing the natural building types out of the Green building article and adding a section on Natural building to the same article, so I will remove the merge proposal tags from the articles. Please join the latest related merge discussion at Talk:Sustainable_architecture#Proposal_to_move_MOST_of_this_article_to_Green_Building.

Would it be a better option to rename this article to "natural building materials" rather than merge these two? This article is very focused on the materials themselves but does not go into the methods by which they are more sustainable or "green". BuckskinBasher90 (talk) 22:18, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

The intention is clearly to cover the construction, not only the materials, if we're really taking up this 16 year old thread. More on how the materials are assembled would be good. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Clay as the only construction material for the walls

Clay as the only construction material for the walls is also used. The benefit is that it is very cheap. To prevent it from getting wet it is mostly covered by wooden shielding (e.g. wooden roof) in contemporary houses. It was also used allot by ethnic minorities in Africa; a very good exemple of this is in Djenné, classified as cultural heritage. Perhaps a picture of this main building can be placed at this page.

Poll on inclusion of natural building link

We would like to get input on the inclusion of an external link in the article on Straw-bale construction. There is discussion and a poll here. Comments prior to August 7, 2007 would be appreciated. Thanks. Sunray 06:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Environmental technology template

I'd like to replace the Environmental technology template with one that matches the standard navbox style, i.e. horizontal instead of vertical, collapsing and typically placed at the bottom of article pages. I've done a mock up of what this would look like at {{User:Jwanders/ET}}. Figured this was a big enough change that I should post before going ahead with it. Please discuss here--jwanders^Talk 22:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

How many people in the world live in natural buildings?

Where can we find this info? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.160.198.228 (talk) 14:40, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

This article should not contain inappropriate reference to concrete and steel

There are several instances of these non-natural building materials in this article. While the use of concrete and steel may have a place in some structures the article does not emphasize the materials should be avoided if possible. The inclusion of 'The model fireproof farm house' is absolutely inappropriate since it has a "poured concrete roof". I propose to update this article by removing inappropriate references to concrete and steel and the Rock Lodge building replacing it with a more appropriate contemporary dry stone home. naturalhomes 16:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.201.207 (talk)

Regarding Cement in Adobe, Earthbag and Rammed earth

As with the edit for stone (formerly, 'Stone, granite, and concrete'), it is inappropriate for this article to detail cement and steel as an additive to the methods adobe, earthbag and rammed earth. As per the stone edit, this talk post is here to open dialogue with experienced practitioners in natural building to comment. The rigor in the changes I propose are in agreement with recognised leaders in their field and will be cited in any changes to this article. naturalhomes 16:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

After a 5 month opportunity for other editors to comment I have now removed the reference to the use of cement in the section Rammed earth. Reference for this if needed can be found in 'Rammed Earth Structures: A Code of Practice' by Professor Rowland Keable, ISBN-13: 978-1853397271 naturalhomes 23:14, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Compressed earth block

It is inappropriate for this article to include the use of cement in Compressed earth block (CEB). The percentage proportions given as 6-10% portland cement is equivalent to the proportions used in concrete foundations, typically 11% cement. As per the recent stone edit, this talk post is intended to open a dialogue with experienced practitioners in natural building to comment before CET is removed from the article or adapted for natural materials such as ferricrete. naturalhomes 18:02, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

As notified on the 20 October 2013 the section on Compressed Earth Block (CEB) has been removed from this article naturalhomes 02:27, 06 February 2014 (UTC)

adobe

I removed this from the adobe section, as it's promotional and redundant:

In past centuries, Latin American countries called this type of rammed earth structure adobe. Nowadays, modern innovations are able to utilize the practicality and use of these rammed earth bricks and combine it with scientific advances to create soil-stabilizing products such as AggreBind. Companies such as Aggrebind are cutting edge and combine the environmentally friendly properties of rammed earth bricks with new cross-linked, water based, styrene acrylic polymers that are able to create green roads and buildings that are sturdier and safer than the traditional methods of creating green buildings.

In a temperate climate with cool nights and hot days, in Perth Western Australia, temperature inside a small 12 m2 rammed earth cabin was monitored over a long hot summer of 2012 and it was found that the inside temperature of the cabin was consistently 10-15 degrees cooler inside the cabin than the outside temperature in the shade, even on a hot 45 degree day! There were no windows or a door installed in the cabin, only the empty window openings and empty doorway which is quite a remarkable result. No air-conditioning was required at all. So if a house is designed correctly for the climate, using a high thermal mass building material such as rammed earth, it really is possible to have a house which doesn't require any air conditioning at all even on a hot 45 degree summer day. The key of course is having the cool nights. So rammed earth is not always such an ideal building material. KVDP (talk) 13:19, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

References

Stucco

The sub-section 'Stucco' is not a correct member of the section 'Techniques' which are all building models. You can't build a stucco house. I propose a new section should be added to the article called 'Finishes' which would include stucco (lime and clay), tadelakt, natural oils for protecting wood etc. If there are no objections I will make the change after a month's notice here. naturalhomes 17:00, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Missing techniques

I propose new sections should be added to the article under 'Techniques' to include the missing techniques hempcrete (hemp and lime) and slip-straw (straw and wet clay) and in the sub-section straw, add straw panel and giant bale techniques. If there are no objections I will make the change after a month's notice here. naturalhomes 16:53, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Impact?

I was wondering if you could explain how these architectural techniques are better for the environment? How does using stone versus wood impact the environment? Rylienicolee (talk) 17:42, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Convert from Natural Building [verb] to Natural Building [noun]

I propose to make small, but potentially many, changes to convert the text of this article to use the term 'Natural Building' as a noun rather than its frequent use here as a verb. This will bring the article into line with the other architectural types such as Eco-House [noun] and Passive House [noun] etc. An example of the changes I propose would replace "Other materials commonly used in natural building are" with "Other materials commonly used in a natural building are" (from the section Materials). This change has been discussed and agreed with leading natural builders. This work will also introduce the commonly used synonym for a 'natural building', namely a 'natural house' which brings this article into line with Eco-House and Passive House etc. If there are no objections I will make the change after a month's notice here. naturalhomes 16:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC)