Talk:Prince Frederick of Prussia (1911–1966)

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Former countries: Prussia

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Untitled[edit]

Quick point. Presumably, the Prince's marriage was viewed as morganatic in Germany. So, although his descendants are still in line to the throne of Great Britain, they would have not claim on the (currently non-existant) throne of Germany? Indisciplined 14:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He was given UK citizenship in 1947 as "Mr Von Preussen", and was allowed to seek compensation for family property confiscated by the Polish communist government as a British citizen. The matter was complicated as he also took on German (Bundesrepublik) citizenship in the 1950s, but I don't know under what name. I imagine his children have their titles as honorifics if they are UK citizens, and as part of their real name if German.86.42.204.255 (talk) 21:30, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All the Kaiser's sons abandoned their claims to the throne of Prussia in 1918, so why did this grandson call himself a prince? Force of habit maybe.86.44.155.224 (talk) 16:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It depends if his children are British or German citizens. If they are German then the law is that their names can include former titles as forenames only, and the translation of those forenames into English will be Prince, etc., in the very same way as Duke Ellington had the forename Duke but was not actually a duke. If they are British citizens then they should be styled as Mr / Ms von Preussen, unless they or their father changed their/his name by deed poll at any stage.86.42.207.5 (talk) 08:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The eldest son was just "Frederick Nicholas VON PREUSSEN (482991)." in the army, when gazetted in 1967.86.42.213.3 (talk) 15:48, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Frederick's marriage to Lady Brigid Guinness, the daughter of an earl, was accepted as dynastically valid when it took place in Hertfordshire on 30 July 1945. While such a marriage would indeed have been banned in the royal House of Hohenzollern prior to their deposition in 1917 and would have been morganatic in other reigning dynasties until the end of WWI, all reigning dynasties proceeded to gradually lower their marital standards thereafter. In 1920 ex-Emperor Wilhelm II de-morganatised the 1914 marriage of his younger son, Prince Oskar of Prussia to Countess Ina Marie von Bassewitz, retracting her morganatic title of "Countess von Ruppin" and retro-elevating her to "HRH Princess Ina of Prussia". Still, when the Kaiser's grandson and rightful heir-eventual, Prince Wilhelm of Prussia (1906–1940) married Dorothea von Salviati at Bonn in 1933, the Kaiser allowed her and her future children (2 daughters, Princess Felicitas b. 1934 and Princess Christa b. 1936) to share the Hohenzollern princely titles in exile only on the condition that Wilhelm Friedrich formally yield his dynastic rights as first-born son to his younger brothers, one of whom was Frederick. Although Frederick and Brigid's children in the UK are merely untitled "von Preussen", they have always been treated by Germany's Head of the Imperial House as full dynasts. Thus when their eldest son Prince Nicholas of Prussia (b. 1946) wed Hon. Victoria Mancroft in London in 1980, daughter of a British peer, that marriage lacked the approval of the Kaiser's heir, Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia (1907-94), and is still considered non-dynastic. The reason is the precise rank of the brides in question: Most dynasties, reigning or deposed, lowered their standards between 1918 and the 1960s -- but did not eliminate them altogether, distinguishing approximately between lower and upper nobility (not to be confused with "high nobility" {Hochadel}, a legal term in monarchical Germany that referred to "dynasts" or "royalty"). Whereas Brigid was a member of Britain's upper nobility as the daughter of an earl entitled to the style of "Lady", and "Ina von Bassewitz" had been, by birth, a countess of a Uradel family of Mecklenburg, whereas Dorothea von Salviati belonged to Germany's untitled gentry and the Mancrofts were only barons, albeit hereditary members of the House of Lords at a time when the Hohenzollerns were, legally, merely "ex-royals". Today, almost none of these families still require noble, let alone royal, brides, but some do still require permission of the Head of the House: Prussia's dynasty is among those. All as documented in Marlene Eilers 1997 "Queen Victoria's Descendants" on pages 17-18, 124, 172. FactStraight (talk) 04:06, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can we conclude that he was a prince within the circle of family and friends, and under his family's rules, but not in the outside world?PatrickGuinness (talk) 13:08, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]