Talk:Prospect, New South Wales

	Australia portal Prospect, New South Wales is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Sydney (assessed as Low-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Prospect Hill, Belle View and Tench's Prospect Mount[edit]

In my view it is a myth (though an often repeated one) that Prospect Hill is the hill that Governor Phillip's party climbed on 26th April 1788 and which he named Belle View. I have been researching the history of Prospect Hill for some time now and can find no basis for this in contemporary reports written by those taking part in the explorations and their close associates. I propose to edit the article accordingly. The argument in brief is as follows:

My reading of three separate contemporary accounts of the expedition of April 1788 (see my page http://www.prospecthill.spathaky.name/history/sources.htm) suggests that the hill climbed on 26th April 1788 is somewhere in the vicinity of Bungarribee Road, Blacktown, possibly a trig point labelled Bungarribee on the map, at 81 m ASL. Governor Phillip named it Belle Vue. There is no mention of the name Prospect Hill in the accounts.

Prospect Hill was climbed by Watkin Tench and party on 26 June 1789 following the establishment of a settlement at Parramatta in November 1788. Tench does not name the hill in his account of that expedition but makes several references to Milton's Paradise Lost, in which there is also a reference to a "goodly prospect of some forein land" [sic]. Tench must have known of the April 1788 expedition and would surely have mentioned the fact if the hill he climbed was Belle View.

The earliest written reference to Prospect Hill that I have found is in connection with an after-dinner walk from Parramatta to the hill by Governor Phillip and (later Governor) Philip Gidley King in April 1790. King's account shows that the name Prospect Hill had become established by then.

There is no firm evidence of the naming of Prospect Hill but I think it probable that the educated and literary Watkin Tench named it from the reference in Paradise Lost.

As for Tench's Prospect Mount, it is nowhere near Prospect Hill. It was climbed by a party led by Phillip in April 1791 and so named by him. Tench was a member of the party.

The case is put more fully in my web pages http://www.prospecthill.spathaky.name/home/questions.htm and http://www.prospecthill.spathaky.name/history/europeans.htm where my sources are referenced. Spathaky (talk) 14:14, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The location of Tench's Prospect Mount is at Youthamurra just west of what is now the Old Northern Road (elevation 200m) The creek followed by Tench's party as shown on Tench's Map is Little Cattai creek and Origma Creek. (This contribution was originally inserted above as if it were mine. It was made by 124.149.105.103.) Mike Spathaky (talk) 08:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yet another myth? (now not a myth but mostly true!)[edit]

I know it has been stated as fact in several secondary sources, but I am not convinced that "Naturalist Charles Darwin visited Prospect in 1832, to observe the geology, as mentioned in his book, The Voyage of the Beagle.[3]" I have read the Voyage of the Beagle and find no reference to Prospect Hill. I have also searched through Volume 2 of FitzRoy's "Narrative of the surveying voyages of His Majesty's Ships Adventure and Beagle..." with the same result. Volume 3 of the "Narrative" formed the basis of Dariwn's "Voyage" and it seems there were several versions published, so it is still possible that something will be unearthed. Can anyone take this further? Mike Spathaky (talk) 23:14, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have now made a further search for this reference and find no mention of Darwin ever visiting or mentioning Prospect. I now propose to delete that sentence unless anyone comes up with chapter and verse for the source. Mike Spathaky (talk) 22:39, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rather later than I intended, I have now deleted the sentence referred to above. Mike Spathaky (talk) 11:55, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well I said I was not convinced (not that it was untrue) and that "it is still possible that something will be unearthed" but I am now convinced. As soon as I had deleted the sentence referred, I found that Darwin did indeed visit Prospect Hill. Not in 1832 but in 1836 during his well-known trip from Sydney to Bathurst. The fact is not mentioned in the reference originally cited but in a new (to me) work only transcribed and published in recent years. Thanks to Keith Compton for his piece in Mindat where I first learnt of this. Who in NSW also wrote of his visit and thought it was in 1832, from which the incorrect information and reference was first obtained by various authors? Mike Spathaky (talk) 00:40, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]