Talk:Russ Hamilton (poker player)

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Opening comment[edit]

I expect someone else to remove the Ultimate Bet information, citing BLP, but it is not appropriate to do so -- the information is well sourced, and there is no way it is potentially libelous: the edit clearly states that he has been implicated, which is exactly what the source supports. atakdoug (talk) 17:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do not ignore the BLP policy again. Forums are not reliable sources, and the anon edits dishonestly added the MSNBC source to support statements it clearly did not. deliberate violation of WP:BLP can cause you to lose your editing privileges so please do not do it again. 2005 (talk) 22:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These comments and links lead me to Twoplustwo.com, a top poker forum, where the UltimateBet cheating scandal is a major issue. Many posts discuss money transfers etc.; however it appears the facts involving this player are still up in the air.Ykral (talk) 05:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Latest KGC commision report indicates that Russ Hamilton is infact one of the key people involved. Indicments forthcoming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.128.15.244 (talk) 01:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is supposedly an "advanced copy" of a press release from the KGC here: [1] and here: [2]
but for now, they are both quoting an iGaming News article and a gambling911.com article, neither of those sources passing WP:RS. I say that we wait for the full KGC report, which supposedly will be released some time in November. ♣♦ SmartGuy ♥♠ (talk) 04:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How does this stack up as a source? Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 22:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
that MSN article does not specifically name Hamilton as the suspected cheat. It covers his role in the founding of UB. But it only identifies the suspected cheater ringleader as "the man" and not by name. It is a good source for other information on Hamilton, though. ♣♦ SmartGuy ♥♠ (talk) 04:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another source, which is direct from KGC http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/kgc092908.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.128.15.244 (talk) 23:22, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This Story from Cardplayer.com uses the this IGamingNews report and is also reported by PokerNews.com states that there will be a full report is due out this November by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, based on the KGC interim report (linked above) gives this quote "The Commission found clear and convincing evidence to support the conclusion that between the approximate dates of May 2004 to January 2008, Russell Hamilton, an individual associated with Ultimate Bet’s affiliate program, was the main person responsible for and benefiting from the multiple cheating incidents. Furthermore, the KGC is currently in contact with the appropriate law enforcement agencies and intends to fully cooperate in the prosecution of all individuals involved in the UB cheating incidents."[1] I believe this to meet WP:V which states verifiability, not truth with sourcing, there for as long as these sources are reported not as a matter of fact but a matter of a report by a reliable sources namely kahnawake.com, cardplayer, igamingnews and pokernews all of which goes beyond forum speculation, I would disagree that igamingnews isn't reliable as i doubt cardplayer would source them if they were just a run of the mill website, however if there is doubt I suppose the WP:RSN could look over the above sources, but i believe SmartGuy's suggestion that we wait for the full report before adding anything to the article maybe best after all I don't see any need to rush as it's just a little over a month away.▪◦▪≡SiREX≡Talk 10:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ "Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission Imposes Sanctions on Ultimate Bet with Regard to Cheating Incidents" (pdf). kahnawake.com. Retrieved 2008-10-01.

opps nevermind I see these are already being used. ▪◦▪≡SiREX≡Talk 10:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please lock this article! Its getting vandalized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.11.71 (talk) 06:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

it was protected recently. If the vandalism gets really going again, I'll submit a new protection request. ♣♦ SmartGuy ♥♠ (talk) 12:59, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Caught cheating?[edit]

So is he going to jail or anything?--Sonjaaa (talk) 20:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No reference to 60 minutes episode? No indication of scale of cheating?[edit]

OK, I haven't visited the page in a while. But, is there some reason there is no mention of the 60 Minutes episode which explicitly named Hamilton as the main cheater in the UB/AP scandal? They set a figure of $20 million dollars on the cheating. In the current article, there is no indication of the scale of the cheating which both Kahwanake and 60 minutes directly attribute to Hamilton, and which clearly amounts to millions of dollars.

The current article might easily be interpeted as "he once peeked at someones cards and stole $18.50." Not much indication of the real bombshell which dropped when 60 minutes outed him as one of the biggest poker cheats in history. zadignose (talk) 08:48, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Why don't you have a go at finding some reliable sources and fleshing out this section of the article? Hazir (talk) 18:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
nice to see that, just over 12 months later, the article DOES have more clear details re. Hamilton's involvement, and the fact that "22 million" is the new estimated total stolen. 199.214.18.122 (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1994 Final hand[edit]

the 1994 Final hand which can be seen on YouTube shows Russ Hamilton was dealt: 8♥ K♠ and Hugh Vincent with 8♣ 5♥

in the video a shot of the board shows 8♣ 2♠ 6♦ 10♣ J♠

Meaning that there would had to been two 8 of clubs in the deck, this was more then likely a post production error on ESPN's part, Vincent looking at his cards would had surely notice if two 8 of clubs were in play not to mention dozens of bystanders, its not really logical that if someone were going to rig the wsop that they would had done so in such a blatant and obvious manner, Hamilton very well may be a disliked even hated figure in poker but I very much doubt that the 1994 WSOP was rigged to favor him to win.

This topic was brought up at 2+2 forum a year ago A comment was made in the notes section about 2 eight of clubs in the deck and was removed by another editor. If anyone feel that there is good reason why this information should stay please give the reasons here, thanks ▪◦▪≡SiREX≡Talk 08:02, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks to me like a very heavily edited video; I cannot possibly see how nobody in the casino would have pointed out that there were two 8 of clubs in the deck. As such, it shouldn't be put in the article that "The deck was rigged," etc etc, and that even if this issue were to be placed in an article at all, it shouldn't be in Russ Hamilton's biography.JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 08:42, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed ▪◦▪≡SiREX≡Talk 12:33, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 22 March 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. – wbm1058 (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– Move the article about the poker player to the base name, over the top of the current 2-entry disambiguation page, because the poker player is the primary topic. This will revert recent actions by user:Toploftical, see Talk:Russ Hamilton#Move review. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:41, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose to retain current arrangement. Here are the long-term page stats involved (note that "Russ Hamilton" in the chart is the poker player). While the poker player has slightly more pageviews on average, there are plenty of times where the singer surpasses him for short periods. I see this as a pretty clear WP:NOPRIMARY situation. -- Netoholic @ 10:55, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Wbm1058: I didn't put that: user:Paine Ellsworth "fixed" the request. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:13, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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