Talk:Sailor Senshi/Sailor Crystal archive

Historical note: This article was called Sailor Crystals, and was ranked B class on the assessment scale for WikiProject Anime and manga.

Corrections to be Made

1. Chibichibi is NOT the Sapphire Crystal. In the manga, she is Sailor Cosmos, and that's that. In the anime, she's the embodiment of the shine of Sailor Galaxia's star seed, dubbed the kibou no hikari (Light of Hope). It's easy to confuse the issue if you don't keep that in mind.

2. I'm not 100% sure that the Outer Soldiers have Super forms, but I'm leaving that unchanged for now.

3. As for Tuxedo Mask holding the Golden Crystal, I invite you to explain this to me since I haven't seen the SuperS anime series. Sailor Stars makes it appear as though he has the Golden Crystal in his body. The manga, as far as I know, doesn't adequately explain this. Danny Lilithborne 05:22, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

My Changes 1. They turn into their Super forms when Hotaru transforms from a baby to a little girl, I can even email you the video clip that explain that but you a DivX codec to play it. 2. I'm not 100% sure if the Golden Crystal thing is true b/c Helios carried it in SuperS and now Tuxedo Mask carries it in Stars so i can find out if it is true or not. 3. In the anime, I'm sure that Chibi-Chibi is Galaxia's starseed b/c Galaxia's star seed was known as the Light of hope and they refer to her star seed as the light of hope and in episode 200, before Chibi-Chibi comes back, you can see a star seed. I can re-check that too.

• Yeah I've seen the clip, don't worry about sending it. :) But the thing about the Sapphire Crystal is that it's only mentioned in the manga, and it's suggested in the manga that Sailor Crystals and star seeds are separate things. The anime is really horrible on continuity details, and makes it seem as though Galaxia is just randomly powerful, instead of having a power source; but it doesn't contradict this. In any case, Chibichibi is not Galaxia's star seed in the manga, and while she is in the anime, it would stand to reason that if she were the Sapphire Crystal, Galaxia would have no power. This is way too complicated for a shojo plot detail, so I'll just end this now ;) Danny Lilithborne 04:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

It's too confusing with the manga and the anime...LOL, the anime and the manga should have the same story line...

The anime makes no mention of the Sapphire Crystal, because Galaxia doesn't have it. I'll explain it better in a while, but there's a difference from the Galaxia and star seeds and crystals in the anime and manga. 130.95.106.154 00:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The Star Seed term

I was wondering wheter Star seed should really redirect here, I've found it used for a few diffrent things including a fictional organism created by Larry Niven Starseed and an item in the He-Man series... said to be a spark that was left over from the creation of the universe that is at the centre of the planet Eternia. Perhaps we should set up a disambig page? --GracieLizzie 23:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. --Masamage 16:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Corrections that were made

The evolved version of the Maboroshi no Ginzuishou for Sailor Moon so she can become Eternal Sailor Moon is the Silver Moon Crystal, volume 15 of the original manga. I also altered the Mystical Silver Crystal entry to reflect the Japanese name per formatting rules we've been upholding thus far. It's *not* a Sailor Crystal, but probably the closest to an undeveopled Sailor Crystal. Classing it I would put it between Starseed and Sailor Crystal, but that doesn't have to be explained. I'm deleting the Chibichibi entry. That can be covered on her page and she isn't really a crystal. --Hitsuji Kinno 17:08, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned it up further. First the Starseeds and the Sailor Crystal sections were being mixed with each other in a very unpleasant and *headdesk* fashion. Second the anime and the manga were being mixed up very, very badly. I quanitified there are no Sailor Crystals in the anime, and gave their name. For fan reference it's "honto ni starseedo" said by Iron Mouse, first Sailor Stars episode. I also took out major plot points since they have nothing to do with the starseeds. The page should stay with the page with the given reference. Not explained here. It was a headache, but it should be ready for a good merge or expansion further.

Only one last matter-- star seed or starseed? Which one gets more hits in relation to Sailormoon on google? --Hitsuji Kinno 17:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

That all looks excellent! :) Thanks very much! I'll add the Silver Moon Crystal reference for good measure. As for the starseed/star seed thing...it doesn't make that big of a difference, but I think I'd lean on using 'starseed'. The version with the space in it seems to emphasize the meanings of the two different words, while the version without is clearly a neologism that means something different from the sum of its parts. That seems reasonable to me, at least on first glance. --Masamage 18:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge with Items?

Should this and all objects be merged with the Items list? --Hitsuji Kinno 07:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

If we're going to go ahead and list all items on one list, I say yes. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm still a little reluctant about the items list going live. I guess I should get my thoughts together on that. --Masamage 08:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Pink Moon Crystal

Is it really appropriate to list the Pink Moon Crystal as a future form of the Silver Crystal when Usagi never actually relinquishes her Sailor Crystal? During the acts that Chibi Usa does receive her Sailor Crystal and is Chibi Moon in the Black Moon arc, Venus is still holding the future Silver Crystal (this can be seen in Volume 7 when Neo Queen Serenity awakens and is comforting Chibi Moon; a panel shows Venus holding the crystal). Finally, Usagi eventually becomes Sailor Cosmos. mochi 13:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, Chibiusa has the Ginzuishou of the future in her transformation compact. In act 42, it comes out of the compact at takes a flower shape. Diana tells her it has been "reborn" as her Sailor Crystal, the Pink Moon Crystal. So whether it makes sense or not, it's definitely right out of the manga. :)

Also, it isn't actually know whether Usagi becomes Sailor Cosmos or not. They look similar, but when asked about it, Sailor Cosmos doesn't answer. --Masamage 22:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that Chibi Usa developed her own Silver Crystal when it was first introduced in volume 7. As Black Lady, a crystal in the similar shape as the Silver Crystal materialized in front of her causing her to transform, however, it is not the same crystal as Neo Queen Serenity's since Venus is still holding it. That idea probably also explains how Princess Serenity and Queen Serenity were able to exist at the same time when they're both supposed to have the Silver Crystal. So I guess it is appropriate to say it's a future form of the Silver Crystal. Hmm.

About Sailor Cosmos, she does answer. She basically says she can't be compared to Eternal Sailor Moon because she lacks the courage and conviction Sailor Mood did when sacrificing herself into the cauldron. Cosmos never outright says she used to be Usagi, but she does say she has Usagi memories of standing before the Galaxy Cauldron. I understand why the idea is being debated, so I'm not going to do any edits about that, so I won't use it as a reason to modify the Pink Moon Crystal bit anymore. mochi 05:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I think your points about Sailor Cosmos are fascinating, and I hope they get discussed more at her talk page. We can definitely include much more detail about the relationship between her and Usagi, even without ever saying whether they're the same or not. Please feel totally free to make that kind of edit in the meantime; that article is a stub right now and can use all the help it can get. :) --Masamage 07:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Yumeko argued this theory too, however there is a slight problem with this, Sailor Venus holds the crystal with Usagi on page 18, volume 7 of the original. (It's Usagi because she lacks the Ginzuishou.) On page 24 we lose track of it in the last frame. In fact both Venus and Usagi's hands are on the ground. Page 29 is when Small Lady cries. Page 30 is when she returns to normal and gets the Ginzuishou. She transforms in the next few pages and Usagi is surprised. This wakes up Neo-Queen Serenity. Page 36 Usagi transforms. Page 37, introductory line. Page 41 shows Venus and she doesn't have the Ginzuishou. This poses a problem, if she's holding it, then she should have it on a necklace or otherwise. Page 46 shows that Venus's hands are empty. The "third" Ginzuishou never shows up for the rest of the manga, posing a larger issue. In addition in both the manga and anime the Maboroshi no Ginzuishou materialized in front of the person despite the parts being elsewhere. In the manga, Volume 3? The Ginzuishou materializes and becomes empty (via tears) and then again comes back together later via tears. (The tears might be a slight reference to a fairytale about crying gems.) So no, Venus is not still holding the crystal when Black Lady/Small Lady cries. Note that I'm taking this from the Japanese version of the manga. --Hitsuji Kinno 23:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Venus is again shown holding a ginzuishou on page (I think) 61, the page right after Serenity runs and hugs Chibimoon. Both Moon and Chibimoon are transformed at this point, so they must have their crystals. Just because Venus is shown with nothing in her hands doesn't prove that she didn't have it, since Moon was also shown with empty hands on page 24, and again on page 34, yet we know she did have the crystal. Yumecosmos 02:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

You don't actually have to have your Crystal to transform. The other Senshi don't get theirs until Dream. --Masamage ♫ 02:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

But isn't Chibimoon's crystal shown to be inside of her brooch most of the time? Why would she have summoned it from Venus with her tears, transformed, and then taken it out and handed it back to Venus a few pages later? Also, the manga shows that two versions of the silver crystal can't work in the same time period, which is why Moon's powers won't work in Crystal Tokyo. If Chibimoon's crystal were the future ginzuishou, it shouldn't be able to work in the past later. Yumecosmos 02:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The Ginzuishou has also been shown outside of a broach. As per Volume 4, Act 13, Page 37 right after Moon received the new broach which included the ginzuishou, she transformed and then the ginzuishou ended up on top of the crescent moon rod again, meaning that in terms of physics, you only need it for the transformation, but it doesn't have to stay in the locket to sustain the transformation. So the way to argue it is to look for three within a given frame. (present, future, chibimoon.) This theoretically could mean that Venus is holding Chibimoon's ginzuishou or Usagi's. In addition since it follows the wishes of the user the physical properties of the crystal could arguably have changed making the danger pass. (But that's OR there). (Next person should reset indent I think.)--Hitsuji Kinno 01:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

True, that could be possible... but that explanation also includes speculation (I don't recall the canon stating that the physical properties of the crystal are altered when it changes owners), and still doesn't address why either of them would have handed their crystal to Venus at that point. I believe a much simpler explanation is that they are two different crystals. As it is right now, the article clearly endorses one theory. I believe this alternate idea, while not 100% confirmed, is at least as likely as the first and deserves mention. Yumecosmos 03:13, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

(New here, please excuse if I don't use this very well) I got a question, if Small Lady acquires the crystal in a traumatic event, why didn't princess Selenity acquire the crystal in the same way when Endimion died protecting her in their past-lives? Queen Selenity says in her confusion of having lost her daughter she couldn't use the cristal to seal Metaria permanently hence the crystal was still hers even after her daughter had undergone such a traumatic event. Why was her trauma able to make the cristal Chibiusa's and not princess Selenity's, in her case? Is losing your lover less of a trauma than losing your friend? If every one of them create their own ginzuishou on the other hand, princess Selenity could have created her ginzuishou when Endimion died and Queen Selenity could still have used hers to seal Metaria. It could have been her own ginzuishou that was hidden in her body when she's reborn (which she had created in her past-life when Endimion died), and it comes to light when Endimion dies in Sailor Moon's arms a second time. This could explain why her mother's cristal didn't "become" Princess Selenity's when she lost someone dear to her, unlike Chibiusa's own case with Pluto, and still have it all make sense, so may be another point in favor of the three cristals theory?CosmicUsagi 06:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Saffer Crystal

I just noticed that the kanji for "Saffer" are 青金石 (seikinseki), which actually means lapis lazuli. IIRC Lapis was called sapphire in ancient times but is not the same as the modern stone called sapphire. Is this worth noting, either here or on Galaxia's page? Yumecosmos 03:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Is that in the manga... *double checks* Oh, it is! Sweet! Yes, that's definitely worth a mention somewhere. I'm not sure where...Galaxia's page seems best offhand... --Masamage ♫ 06:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

"heart-shaped" Ginzuishou

This is firmly debunked by Manga volume 8, Act 27, page 85. It shows Chibiusa taking out the ginzuishou out of her locket, meaning that the heart shape crystal is *part* of the *decoration* of the locket. I don't think the anime has any particular evidence that this is also not true. This locket can clearly open... I'm working on my Sailor Moon pages. ^^;; I'm doing item, transformation and attack scans.--Hitsuji Kinno 01:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh. I don't have volume 8; does it show the heart piece lifting up, like a lid? --Masamage ♫ 01:42, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll scan it. (Sailor Moon's is more clearly a locket.) --Hitsuji Kinno 01:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[1] scanned. (Note that the last frame deceptively seems to show two crystals... but I *think* she meant that to be the inside of the holder... and she *fixed* it for the shinsouban. [2] Volume 6 Page 157.)--Hitsuji Kinno 01:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)